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A minor question about the rules surrounding timings.

NoIdentifier

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In basic I was trained to be on time, not early and definitely not late. So it wouldn't be too surprising to know that I know exactly how long it takes me to bike to work, at varying speeds, and also how long it would take to walk in the event of a bike breakdown.

However, this attitude of mine simply does not fly anymore, it seems. Despite showing up on time, slightly early, every day and ready to go instantly...(If I had to prepare before work I would show up in order to do so, before work started) I have found myself in a bit of trouble.

Upon showing up for a recent event, to see that it started earlier than the timing I was given, I was pulled aside and asked why I was late. I told the person that I was not late and I am actually a few minutes early for the timing given to me. I, of course, found myself in quite a bit of trouble and extra duties.

So my question is this: can you actually be in trouble for not being early ENOUGH to a given timing? Is it merely up to your bosses judgement to determine how early one must be in order to punish them?

Now, to finish with this. The situation is obviously very minor. I'm not angry or surprised, just curious. I will simply do my duties and aim to show up much earlier than the given timings for the future.


 

UnwiseCritic

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Honestly it's difficult to answer, we don't know your history with timings or the situation.

In theory if what your saying is true, it's just another example of poor leadership. However I've never heard of something like this happening before. Nor do I know what good any answer on here will do for you.
 

Jager

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Assuming that you're post is 100% truthful and you don't have a history with being late. Then this appears to be an example of poor leadership or failure to pass on information to you. If a timing is 0730, then you are late as of 0730, not 0725.
 

cupper

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Please clarify the situation.

Were you given the wrong timing?

Or was the timing changed and you were not informed?

Or was the timing you were given correct, but the event kicked off earlier than it was supposed to?

And, were you ready to carry out the tasking at either the given / correct time?

Regardless of the situation, as was previously stated, you are late only if you are not where you are supposed to be ready to do or doing what you are supposed to do, at the time given. Unless you were directed to be there x minutes early, you are only late if you arrive past the given time, AND / OR are not ready to perform the tasking at that time.
 

chrisf

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You showed up when you were told to show up.

If you were told wrong, or the timing changed and you weren't told, and somone expected you to be able to read minds, it's really their fault they're disapointed.
 

Franko

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A rule of thumb I learned early in my career...show up 15 minutes early for all timings.

It not only allows you to have a bit of wiggle room if there's traffic, but when you do get there, you have time to sort out kit or your dress. It also gets you into the habit of being early for orders, which is a good thing later on in your career.

Some units I've been in over the years had that as its SOP and it works well when employed properly. When morons get involved, it can run amock. A timing from an OC of 0700 can turn into 0615 if each supervisor puts their spin on it, when the intent of the OC was seeing everyone being there at 0645 and the planned activity kicking off at 0700.

Regards
 
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Based on my knowledge of the HBO series "Band of Brothers", you can face disciplinary action for failure to meet a timing of which you were unaware. However, you may be able to formally present a defense at a later time. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMoFlaEcKoM
 

Fishbone Jones

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Tetragrammaton said:
Based on my knowledge of the HBO series "Band of Brothers", you can face disciplinary action for failure to meet a timing of which you were unaware. However, you may be able to formally present a defense at a later time. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMoFlaEcKoM

Are you serious? It's a movie, and not even the same military or time frame.

Lanes. They are there for a reason.

Stay in them.

---Staff---
 

Franko

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:rofl:

Funniest piece of advice EVER!

Regards
 

NoIdentifier

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Unfortunately I don't know much about our rules and where they are kept, but would there be a spot, somewhere, in our rules that would specifically mention this sort of issue?
 

George Wallace

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NoIdentifier said:
Unfortunately I don't know much about our rules and where they are kept, but would there be a spot, somewhere, in our rules that would specifically mention this sort of issue?

It is proper etiquette to show early for any appointment.  It does not matter if it is military or civilian timings that are given, "fashionably late" is a negative reflection on your person.  Perhaps you have heard of "Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior "?

If you want a military reference, perhaps this will do:  " ARRIVE fifteen minutes prior to an 'O' Group so that you can copy the TRACE."
 

Teager

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An easy way to know if you were late or not is: Was everyone else there before you? Or did the majority of people arrive the same time as you?

If you arrived before or at the same time as most others did did anyone else get spoken too?

If it is the same person that keeps speaking to you about timings maybe ask that person for the timings in writing and as soon as you arrive inform them that you have arrived.
 

Towards_the_gap

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If everyone else was on time and you were still late you either have some selfish comrades or you may be slightly socially handicapped in some way or form. ;D
 

Haggis

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Towards_the_gap said:
If everyone else was on time and you were still late you either have some selfish comrades or you may be slightly socially handicapped in some way or form. ;D

Ouch!!!!
 

PAdm

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Life became easier when I realized I was never late when I arrived with the boss.  The down side was I had to be with the boss....

I agree with the wisdom already provided - I always arrive early. It gives me time to find the new meeting room no one told me about; or to chat with folks prior to the event; or review any notes; or to simply demonstrate that I read the info/order/meeting request/etc and am ready to participate. I am usually 10 min early.

WRT your case, extras are a right of passage and gives bragging rights, especially when not deserved. While you may be correct, your call if you want to pick this as a battle. If I had a dollar for every time I have apologized for something I never even did wrong...
 

kratz

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NoIdentifier said:
Unfortunately I don't know much about our rules and where they are kept, but would there be a spot, somewhere, in our rules that would specifically mention this sort of issue?

Adjust your thinking when asking your question.

Civy side, you are paid per hour on the clock. So showing up on time is appropriate.

Reserve / military side, you are paid for half a day = 6 hours or less (or full day = 6 hours or more),
so what harm is there is showing up 5min, 10min, 30min early? You are still paid to be there and ready to work.
 

OldSolduer

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Nerf herder said:
A rule of thumb I learned early in my career...show up 15 minutes early for all timings.

It not only allows you to have a bit of wiggle room if there's traffic, but when you do get there, you have time to sort out kit or your dress. It also gets you into the habit of being early for orders, which is a good thing later on in your career.

Some units I've been in over the years had that as its SOP and it works well when employed properly. When morons get involved, it can run amock. A timing from an OC of 0700 can turn into 0615 if each supervisor puts their spin on it, when the intent of the OC was seeing everyone being there at 0645 and the planned activity kicking off at 0700.

Regards

A wise man you are, young Jedi.

In the Army only can you be late if you are on time.
 

FJAG

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Am I the only one with a different view here?

Assuming that the initial representation given is accurate, then in my view the NCM doing the strip tearing is way out of line.

I agree with showing up ten (or fifteen) minutes before an O Gp to mark your map but that's not showing up early; it's showing up on time to do the job that you need to have done before the O Gp starts.

In the past we used to show up a few  minutes early because often people's watches kept different time and you didn't want to get ripped for having a slow watch -- nowadays with cellphones with networked timings that rarely happens.

IMHO to show up early just in case some trigger happy NCM wants to start early is bull and it would be very unfair for him to rip a subordinate for not reading his mind. If he wants the flexibility to start early then set an earlier time and let everyone know.

I think its good practice to come a little early for things but for an NCM to award "extras" in these circumstances (again, if accurate) is a failure in leadership.

:slapfight:
 

George Wallace

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FJAG said:
Am I the only one with a different view here?

Assuming that the initial representation given is accurate, then in my view the NCM doing the strip tearing is way out of line.

No you aren't.  We have been addressing the matter of arriving early as a protocol or part of etiquette.  If indeed the OP story is true and they were early, or even on time, then the NCM doing the "strip tearing" is definitely out of line and the OP was wronged.
 
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