Acting Chief of Military Personnel on Diversity, Inclusion, and Culture Change Short-Term Initiatives

[daftandbarmy]

Think on...

 

[Edward Campbell]

I was thinking of apologizing for posting the original article, but the discussion has been enlightening.

I was fortunate enough to know a couple of really good padres - two of them become Chaplain Generals (different demonization) and both enriched my life, as friends., and made our units better places in which all, of us - 950+ soldiers in 2RCR - served.

I knew a coupe Padres who were eminent forgettable .. but I knew several regimental officers who were the same. The ratios seem about e even, in retrospect.

Like many others, I have availed myself of the services of padres and, especially as a regimental commander, I was rarely disappointed.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You are going straight to Heaven. St. Peter will just nod when you approach.

Edited to add: You should have let him kill him; pour encuorager les autres.

I’m sensing you know both the situation and PAO in SKTs post…

 

[FJAG]

I don't have a religious bone in my body and IMHO the military needs to be secular in its policies and programs. It has gone a long way in achieving that over the last half century.

All that said, IMHO the chaplain corps is an essential element that is needed to not only minister to those who have faith and benefit from spiritual assistance in far away and dangerous places and to provide a wide variety of social and personnel services.

The authors of the report are simply out to lunch and in their scramble to be politically correct and have gone out of their way in not understanding that which they are criticizing.

 

[OldSolduer]

I don't have a religious bone in my body and IMHO the military needs to be secular in its policies and programs. It has gone a long way in achieving that over the last half century.

All that said, IMHO the chaplain corps is an essential element that is needed to not only minister to those who have faith and benefit from spiritual assistance in far away and dangerous places and to provide a wide variety of social and personnel services.

The authors of the report are simply out to lunch and in their scramble to be politically correct have gone out of the way in not understanding that which they are criticizing.

And I’d add some have an axe to grind.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Certainly you can see the irony in your above post. Or do suggest the entire Padre branch are thieves?

EITS is right. What you are saying is kind of like saying all women are prostitutes, because you met one who was. Saying "I am personally soured on them because I witnessed X" is ok, but tossing them all in the trash is quite harsh and disservice. If we tossed any rank that had an asshole or a O2 thief in them, we would not have any ranks left and the same applies to all trades as well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Correct me if I’m wrong; a SW can put a report in my med file, a Padre cannot and will not.

Aside from required pre/post-deployment processes, when I’ve needed the services of a SW/counsellor, I’ve personally used and recommend the Military Assistance Program to my subs and bosses in some cases. Zero flow back to my med records except the mandatory reporting stuff (harm to self and others).

I like my privacy…

 

[SupersonicMax]

I was fortunate enough to know a couple of really good padres - two of them become Chaplain Generals (different demonization) …

 

[btrudy]

EITS is right. What you are saying is kind of like saying all women are prostitutes, because you met one who was. Saying "I am personally soured on them because I witnessed X" is ok, but tossing them all in the trash is quite harsh and disservice. If we tossed any rank that had an asshole or a O2 thief in them, we would not have any ranks left and the same applies to all trades as well.

Seriously people. EITS brought up a single anecdote to try and paint Social Work Officers as being bad. I was specifically bringing up my own Padre anecdote specifically to highlight that anecdotes are nothing more than a single data point, and should not be used to paint the entire trade with a broad brush. You know, hence my follow on comment of "Let's try to focus on generalities instead of whether or not one specific member you met once happened to be bad."

 

[Furniture]

Seriously people. EITS brought up a single anecdote to try and paint Social Work Officers as being bad. I was specifically bringing up my own Padre anecdote specifically to highlight that anecdotes are nothing more than a single data point, and should not be used to paint the entire trade with a broad brush. You know, hence my follow on comment of "Let's try to focus on generalities instead of whether or not one specific member you met once happened to be bad."

Fair point, though it was me that you were quoting. My lived experience is as valid as any other persons, so I will continue to express my opinions based on my experiences.

You're right though, we need to look beyond individual experiences, and assess the broader impact. Based on the feedback here, chaplains are a net positive for the CAF. Based on the latest data I've seen, ~65% of Canadians identify as some form of Christian, with under 25% identifying as non-religious. Should we really reform the entire system of chaplains for under 25% of Canadians?

I hate onions, and refuse to eat food with what I consider excessive use of onions. Should mess halls be banned from using onions? I feel like my food preferences are more important on a day-to-day basis than a "maybe someday" situation people dream up to support removing chaplains...

 

[Gunnar]

Should we really reform the entire system of chaplains for under 25% of Canadians?

Isn’t that currently what we do in every other field? One peanut allergy changes the policies of school boards, one person with a different outlook on life changes (or creates) a « bathroom policy » where one was never needed before, etc., etc. While there can be such a thing as the « tyranny of the majority », the modern trend has been the « tyranny of the protected minority », usually to the detriment of the majority.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Seriously people. EITS brought up a single anecdote to try and paint Social Work Officers as being bad. I was specifically bringing up my own Padre anecdote specifically to highlight that anecdotes are nothing more than a single data point, and should not be used to paint the entire trade with a broad brush. You know, hence my follow on comment of "Let's try to focus on generalities instead of whether or not one specific member you met once happened to be bad."

Actually I mentioned several unfavourable interactions with SW and SW Officers including 1 of my own, 1 during a workshop to demonstrate biases and imperfections of even experts and a situation I was involved in, indirectly, very recently in which a mbr said they would not use a SW service again. I also spoke about my semi-recent (within the last year -> year and a half) experience in the DA (Designated Assistant) role in which the padre was very valuable to me, the VSI mbr and their family. The day the mbr passed away, I was there with the family. So was the RC Padre. No one in that process ever asked for a SW Officer.

In my 3 decades of lacing up the boots, Padres have been valuable in many different situations and I was never disappointed with the results. The 1 SW Officer I was referred to back around 2008 or so, I requested to be re-referred and made a complaint about (inappropriate comments and behaviour).

I'm not trying to paint them bad, I'm adding my own lived experiences to the discussion.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Oh, sh!t ... flippin' autocorrect ... but it's too good to correct. Both my old chums (Stu Clark and George Traverse) would chuckle.

 

[dimsum]

Oh, sh!t ... flippin' autocorrect ... but it's too good to correct. Both my old chums (Stu Clark and George Traverse) would chuckle.

I actually thought it was intentional.

 

[Remius]

The CAF is open to a diversity of demon worship. I see no issues with it. Also the panel mentioned nothing of doing away with those denominations. So all good.

 

[Edward Campbell]

And here's another. "contribution" to the retention debate: Opinion: Religious bigotry won’t solve the Canadian military’s discrimination problem

And another: Brian Dijkema: This proposed assault on Canada's religious freedom cannot stand from Brian Dijkema (Brian Dijkema | Writer | Convivium) of Cardus (About Us - Cardus)

 

[Edward Campbell]

I actually thought it was intentional.

Nah ... I'm not that quick-witted.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Oh, sh!t ... flippin' autocorrect ... but it's too good to correct. Both my old chums (Stu Clark and George Traverse) would chuckle.

I also got a much needed laugh; pictured a young and old priest fairly immediately.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The authors of the report are simply out to lunch and in their scramble to be politically correct and have gone out of their way in not understanding that which they are criticizing.

The report was more than that. It was a not particularly well-crafted swing for the fences on all the points SJWs are trying to push, including their war against religion. Whether or not the authors were pushing the agenda or too timid to push back on some of what they were hearing from advocates is only of passing interest.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The CAF is open to a diversity of demon worship. I see no issues with it. Also the panel mentioned nothing of doing away with those denominations. So all good.

Must be tough, virgins seem to be few and far between these days and PETA will be after you if you use chicken or pigs blood.