Advice for women on BMQ and other courses [MERGED]

[camochick]

Instead of trying to achieve a politically driven agenda, recruiters must simply seek out the best qualified candidates - regardless of gender, sexual persuasion or ethnic background.

As much as it kills me to say this, i agree with this. Why not focus on getting quality PEOPLE in the military. I for one wouldnt want to be hired for a job based on the fact that I am a woman. I would prefer to get the job because i am the most qualified.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It's interesting that every study and story focuses on the attitudes of people already in the army.  Does anyone ever study teenagers to find out what sort of CF they would join, if at all, and how suited they are for entry to CF life?

 

[chriscalow]

It's interesting that every study and story focuses on the attitudes of people already in the army. Does anyone ever study teenagers to find out what sort of CF they would join, if at all, and how suited they are for entry to CF life?

That is the smartest thing I've seen all day.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

My impression is with this article the only opinion that has any merit is that of the author.  :

 

[Cloud Cover]

Please break down the article for me, I can't tell the fact from fiction.  [I'm serious ... hint.]

 

[Brad Sallows]

>the Defence Department spin doctors immediately trotted out their usual list of confusing statistics, pie charts and hollow promises

Information is merely information.  A judgement of "confusing" must reside entirely within the domain of the mind of the individual attempting to comprehend the information.

 

[Long in the tooth]

I instructed females in the reserves 25 years ago.  At that time they could not join the combat arms and I often wondered why they couldn't.  Out of 48 candidates, 6 were female and the same percentage would've made as GOOD soldiers as the guys.  They were often more organized, on the ball and determined as the men.

On the flip side the CF has SHARPened itself to death and become one of the most gender neutral employers in the country.  Members of the military are SELF SELECTED.

This horse is dead.  Organizing another tiger team to ride it won't get anywhere.

 

[McG]

Further thoughts on this article: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28273.0.html

 

[TCBF]

"It's interesting that every study and story focuses on the attitudes of people already in the army. Does anyone ever study teenagers to find out what sort of CF they would join, if at all, and how suited they are for entry to CF life?"

No.

Because they are joining our culture - the culture of combat - we are not joining theirs.  How do you engineer an army to appeal to the useless?  Make bullets go slower?  Stop it from raining?  Outlaw Hypo/Hyperthermia?  

Like asking pilots what kind of a sky they want to fly in: "Can gravity give us a break?"

I'm afraid not.

Girls are girls and boys are boys.  We are hard wired this way.  When you try and turn a girl into a boy, you get a very unhappy girl.  When you try and turn a boy into a girl, you get a young offender.

All of  the feminazis in the world with all of the taxpayer's money in the world cannot change this.

Tom

 

[KevinB]

:

As one who filled out that useless and rather driven questionaire - I have a few problems with both it and those that would use its data to find anything meaningful.

I recall from some univerisity stats classes that I managed to stay awake thru and pass   (will wonders never cease) and some sort of sociology course I took (I think it was some dreary elective that I had to fill) - that for surveys and the like require many things - 1 a Valid sample size - and from this sample size you require a given percentage of respondents to make it valid (too be honest it was too long ago and I think I got a C- in my second year stats course that I can't define what either would be anymore, I am sure N should be greater than or equal to 32  ???  - gimme a break I am a 031 Cpl - But I am sure some budding pilot in second or third year could chime in a fill us in...) Now I do recall from the social aspect the questions you use for the survey must be neutral - for you can easily steer a responce by phrasing a question a certain way.  Surveys that are not neutrally phases are simply geared to give the answer the poser wanted.

Now admittedly I am a WASP.   However I think question that ask you what you feel of the turban surplanting a beret on a soldier are desinged to illicit a certain responce - personally I feel one uniform standard is all that is required for the CF - you join it and become a soldier - Period.

Now given my and many others like me - responces that are geared that way - it all of a sudden is taken to mean those of use are all red neck hicks playing a banjo??????? (no offence intended to red-neck, hick banjo players BTW...)

Back to my Scott Taylor rant ---

So Scott in his infine wisdom seizes upon a flawed survey (and feel free to quote me on the flawed survey stuff) and derives the fact we (as Infanteers primarily) do not like Females? and it will not work?

   Honestly as much as it pains me to say it - the two 031 females in 1 PPCLI are some of the better troops. Instead of cryign about integration and other fluff - concentrate on the standard - achieve it or STFU.

The CF would have been served to a much higher degree by taking the $ that went into that studies and its spin offs, and buying bullets for troops to train.


- nuff said

 

[FastEddy]

"It's interesting that every study and story focuses on the attitudes of people already in the army. Does anyone ever study teenagers to find out what sort of CF they would join, if at all, and how suited they are for entry to CF life?"

No.

Because they are joining our culture - the culture of combat - we are not joining theirs.  How do you engineer an army to appeal to the useless?  Make bullets go slower?  Stop it from raining?  Outlaw Hypo/Hyperthermia?  

Like asking pilots what kind of a sky they want to fly in: "Can gravity give us a break?"

I'm afraid not.

Girls are girls and boys are boys.  We are hard wired this way.  When you try and turn a girl into a boy, you get a very unhappy girl.  When you try and turn a boy into a girl, you get a young offender.

All of  the feminazis in the world with all of the taxpayer's money in the world cannot change this.

Tom

Tom,

As I read down your reply I burst into uncontrollable laughter when I came to "When you try and turn a boy into a girl, you get a young officer" then reading it again I saw my error, it was "offender".

You also go on to say, that you regard the youth of to-day as "USELESS" I'm sure we all find that statement very comforting considering that we will eventually be handing over the reins of our world to them.

As for the Feminist's, this is simply the most chauvinistic remark I've heard in argument against the roles of Female Soldiers in the CAF's.

 

[TCBF]

I am not calling all of our youth useless, merely the useless ones who would not join the Army until it has transmorgrified itself into something they would join - at which point, it would be totally useless as well.

I do not bandy the feminazi label about incautiously, but only to highlight those who believe "Men" are the problem, and "WIMIN" must re-engineer society - and it's institututions (us) - in order to "balance the injustices".

The bit about turning boys into little girls is valid.   Recent research in Quebec dealing with youth violence highlighted the fact that boys and girls cannot be socialized using identical methods, and boys must engage in "play" violence in order to learn limits on real violence.  

Where do violent men learn to be violent?   They don't - we are born violent.   Society teaches us not to be violent -96 % of us anyway.   The rest are imprperly socialized  - often by violent mothers.   Ever notice most of the teachers in grade schools are women, and how they insist we put our boys on Ritalin so they can then teach them like little girls?

It won't work.

Tom

 

[LowRider]

Thanks GGBoy for your "insight"   . I, for one, am in the middle of writing to the Chronicle Herald as we speak (wirte). I am really so tired of him and his unsubstantiated and unfactual stories and the unfortunate part is that there are Canadians out there who view him to be a "military expert".

If you read the Chronic herald much you can see Scott Taylor's "biased brand of pretend journalisim"
is on par with a lot of the crap that gets published in that rag.Another good example is the incoherent left wing rantings of Marilla Stephenson.

 

[atticus]

Further thoughts on this article: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28273.0.html

I clicked on the link and it says it doesn't exist!

 

[McG]

It had a few surgeries that resulted in a new address:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28300.0.html

 

[marlene]

Regarding Scott Taylor - perhaps the media is at fault as much as Scott Taylor for printing his "garbage". They are well aware of what they are printing and obviously it suits their purposes.

merlane

 

[FastEddy]

If you read the Chronic herald much you can see Scott Taylor's "biased brand of pretend journalisim"
is on par with a lot of the crap that gets published in that rag.Another good example is the incoherent left wing rantings of Marilla Stephenson.

Yes most the Public/Members know full well where Scott Taylor's Journalism is coming from. But like the Powers to Be indicate, he's best left ignored. Our concerns and efforts should best be focused on educating the Public/Members and CAF's to the merits of Female Personnel in all area's. A good example of ATTITUDES would be a post in this thread, such ATTITUDES are not created by Scott Taylor, but by ignorance and discrimination.

Throwing stones at Scott Taylor will only fan the flames of his particular type of journalism.  Again as the PTB have pointed out it is best to ignore him.

 

[Glorified Ape]

Ever notice most of the teachers in grade schools are women, and how they insist we put our boys on Ritalin so they can then teach them like little girls?

It won't work.

Mein gott, I agree with TCBF on something. It really is true that the educational approach to boys needs to be re-examined, especially with the amount of disregard that has been shown them in the last few decades when the focus shifted to girls because they weren't achieving as well in math and sciences. We really do try to emasculate and "feminize" our boys, contrary to their natural tendencies.

I think Striker's point on the recruiting drive is apt - stop wasting money and focus on recruiting everyone - period. This just goes to show how idiotic hiring quota systems are.

 

[FastEddy]

Mein gott, I agree with TCBF on something. It really is true that the educational approach to boys needs to be re-examined, especially with the amount of disregard that has been shown them in the last few decades when the focus shifted to girls because they weren't achieving as well in math and sciences. We really do try to emasculate and "feminize" our boys, contrary to their natural tendencies.

I think Striker's point on the recruiting drive is apt - stop wasting money and focus on recruiting everyone - period. This just goes to show how idiotic hiring quota systems are.

I guess you are unaware of our Teachers (male & female) plight and concerns about classroom behavior (Grade School in particular) these days.

These children (male & female) have mental disorders which produce extrem disruptive and violent behavior.

Prescription drugs, are used to bring them into a reasonably normal range of manageability. Without the fear that they might poke an eye out of one of their classmates. Also giving them a chance for a reasonable absorbsion of knowledge, without they would not be able to.

It really surprises me in this day and age that there are so many misinformed people I suggest you make the acquaintance of a number of Teachers, maybe even sit in a classroom session. Failing that, there are a great number of good books on the subject.

With regard to the Natural Male Tendencies your description would be, Tobacco Chewing, Sun Burnt Neck, Club Carrying, Drooling Brute. No wonder Domestic Violence is on the rise.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The number of children "mainstreamed" is insufficient to account for the number of children medicated.  What was unnecessary thirty years ago is unnecessary now.