Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
Now that the cat is out of the bag about DEA (Direct Entry Applicants) aka 'off the street' types, and it is expected that the trade will open up to Component Transfer from the Reserves, will the "rules and reg's" for remusters within the Regs remain as it is (3 years w/QL4 for those under LOTP, 4 years w/QL4 for those under COTP)??
My guess is "no" but...though I'd put it out there as others might be wondering. I'm in the breech for my OT now, so this change won't affect me personally but I was asked that question over the weekend. I said "probably remain the same" as I can't see them them changing the COTP reg's now for 1 MOC.
My guess is "no" but...though I'd put it out there as others might be wondering. I'm in the breech for my OT now, so this change won't affect me personally but I was asked that question over the weekend. I said "probably remain the same" as I can't see them them changing the COTP reg's now for 1 MOC.
A
aesop081
Guest
I dont know what the answer is but i can certainly find out.
My educated 2 cents would say that the trade would move off the COTP list and become just a regular AVOTP trade with all the rules and regs of that program.
My educated 2 cents would say that the trade would move off the COTP list and become just a regular AVOTP trade with all the rules and regs of that program.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
Here is the COTP AES Op Message for this year, condensed. You can get a copy of the complete message from the PSO, or PM me and I can get you a copy to your Forces account or something. The message is UNCLAS. The CAPS are from the message, not me.
SUBJ: 2009/10 FY COMPETITION FOR THE ANNUAL CONTINUING OCCUPATION TRANSFER PROGRAM (COTP) - MOSID 00019 AESOP-JR
REFS:
A. CFAO 11-12
B. MOSID ENTRY EDUCATION STANDARDS - (Intranet Address removed by poster)
C. DAOD 5049-1 OBLIGATORY SERVICE
D. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 05/05 NEW TOS
E. VOT APPLICATION FORM - (Intranet Address removed by poster)
F. DAOD 5023-2 PHYSICAL FITNESS PROGRAM
G. LFCO 24-02, PARA 13, PHYSICAL FITNESS
H. MATRIX OF OUT-CAPS BY OCCUPATION - (Intranet Address removed by poster)
1. BY DEFINITION THE COTP IS A CONTINUOUS PROGRAM THEREFORE APPLICATIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED BY DMCA 5-3/OCCUPATION TRANSFERS AT ANY TIME
2. THE DEADLINE FOR RECEIPT OF APPLICATIONS AT DMCA 5-3 FOR 09/10 SELECTIONS IS 14 NOV 08. UNITS SHOULD CONSULT THEIR LOCAL BPSO OFFICE FOR LOCAL SUBMISSION DEADLINES
3. DUE TO CHANGING SERVICE REQUIREMENTS SOME MOSIDS WILL BE LIMITED WITH RESPECT TO THE NUMBER OF TRANSFERS ALLOWED OUT. LIMITS OUT (OUT-CAPS) ARE LISTED AT REF H
4. ELIGIBILITY:
A. APPLICANTS MUST MEET TIME-IN REQUIREMENT LISTED AT REF A ANNEX B
(PREVIOUS P RES TIME MAY BE INCLUDED IN CALCULATION IF NO BREAK IN SERVICE HAS OCCURRED)
B. APPLICANTS MUST MEET EDUCATION ENTRY CRITERIA LISTED AT REF B
C. ALL APPLICANTS MUST HAVE COMPLETED A MEDICAL UPDATE WITHIN THE LAST TWELVE MONTHS OF THIS YEARS COMPETITION DEADLINE AND POSSESS THE REQUIRED MEDICAL PROFILE FOR THEIR PRESENT MOSID AND TARGET OCCUPATION
D. APPLICANTS MUST ALSO HAVE COMPLETED A BASE LEVEL AIRCREW. PART 3 OF REF E MUST BE ANNOTATED QUOTE FIT POTENTIAL AIRCREW UNQUOTE WITH AIR FACTOR ANNOTATED BY THE BASE SURGEON
E. AS PER REFS F AND G, MBR MUST HAVE A CURRENT ANNUAL PHYSICAL FITNESS EVALUATION WITH A PASS RATING ACHIEVED NO MORE THAN ONE YEAR, OR AN EXPRES INCENTIVE EXEMPT PASS RATING (INCLUDING ANY APPLICABLE ENVIRONMENTAL OR OCCUPATION STANDARD ASSESSED AS EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN MPFS, I.E., LFCPFS, ETC.) ACHIEVED NO MORE THAN TWO YEARS, PRIOR TO ANY VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER (VOT)). PROOF OF MBR S STATUS MUST BE PROVIDED PRIOR TO THE
EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY VOT (I.E. AT TIME OF VOT OFFER)
5. CAREER IMPLICATIONS:
A. APPLICANTS MUST THOROUGHLY UNDERSTAND THE CONDITIONS OF SERVICE
AS OUTLINED IN REFS A, C AND D. APPLICANTS MUST ALSO BE AWARE THAT
THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF ACADEMIC OR TRAINING FAILURE ARE
REASSIGMENTS TO THEIR FORMER OCCUPATION, OR TO AN OCCUPTION THAT IS
OPEN AT THAT TIME OR RELEASE
B. SELECTED APPLICANTS WILL NO LONGER BELONG TO THEIR UNIT UPON
EFFECTIVE DATE OF VOT (APS 09 FOR MOST), AT WHICH TIME THEY WILL BE
POSTED TO THE NEAREST BTL OF THEIR HOME BASE TO AWAIT TRG
6. COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS:
A. UNITS MUST SEND THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS TO DMCA 5-3/OCCUPATION
TRANSFERS, NDHQ 7CBN, 101 COLONEL BY DRIVE, OTTAWA, ON K1A OK2:
(1) COMPLETED VOT APPLICATION FORM AT REF E (PARTS 1-5)
(2) CF 285 PERSONNEL SELECTION REPORT
(3) UP TO DATE MPRR INCLUDING FITNESS RESULTS (NOT EMAA VERSION)
(4) WAIVER IF APPLICABLE
B. DO NOT SEND PERS FILES OR UERS TO DMCA 5-3
C. OFFERS FOR SUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS SHOULD COMMENCE EARLY FEB 09 AND
CONTINUE THROUGH END MAR 09. NO REQUESTS FOR UPDATES ON ACTIVE FILES
WILL BE CONSIDERED UNTIL 30 APR 09 AND MBRS MUST GO THROUGH THE UNIT
CHAIN OF COMMAND
SUBJ: 2009/10 FY COMPETITION FOR THE ANNUAL CONTINUING OCCUPATION TRANSFER PROGRAM (COTP) - MOSID 00019 AESOP-JR
REFS:
A. CFAO 11-12
B. MOSID ENTRY EDUCATION STANDARDS - (Intranet Address removed by poster)
C. DAOD 5049-1 OBLIGATORY SERVICE
D. ADM (HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 05/05 NEW TOS
E. VOT APPLICATION FORM - (Intranet Address removed by poster)
F. DAOD 5023-2 PHYSICAL FITNESS PROGRAM
G. LFCO 24-02, PARA 13, PHYSICAL FITNESS
H. MATRIX OF OUT-CAPS BY OCCUPATION - (Intranet Address removed by poster)
1. BY DEFINITION THE COTP IS A CONTINUOUS PROGRAM THEREFORE APPLICATIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED BY DMCA 5-3/OCCUPATION TRANSFERS AT ANY TIME
2. THE DEADLINE FOR RECEIPT OF APPLICATIONS AT DMCA 5-3 FOR 09/10 SELECTIONS IS 14 NOV 08. UNITS SHOULD CONSULT THEIR LOCAL BPSO OFFICE FOR LOCAL SUBMISSION DEADLINES
3. DUE TO CHANGING SERVICE REQUIREMENTS SOME MOSIDS WILL BE LIMITED WITH RESPECT TO THE NUMBER OF TRANSFERS ALLOWED OUT. LIMITS OUT (OUT-CAPS) ARE LISTED AT REF H
4. ELIGIBILITY:
A. APPLICANTS MUST MEET TIME-IN REQUIREMENT LISTED AT REF A ANNEX B
(PREVIOUS P RES TIME MAY BE INCLUDED IN CALCULATION IF NO BREAK IN SERVICE HAS OCCURRED)
B. APPLICANTS MUST MEET EDUCATION ENTRY CRITERIA LISTED AT REF B
C. ALL APPLICANTS MUST HAVE COMPLETED A MEDICAL UPDATE WITHIN THE LAST TWELVE MONTHS OF THIS YEARS COMPETITION DEADLINE AND POSSESS THE REQUIRED MEDICAL PROFILE FOR THEIR PRESENT MOSID AND TARGET OCCUPATION
D. APPLICANTS MUST ALSO HAVE COMPLETED A BASE LEVEL AIRCREW. PART 3 OF REF E MUST BE ANNOTATED QUOTE FIT POTENTIAL AIRCREW UNQUOTE WITH AIR FACTOR ANNOTATED BY THE BASE SURGEON
E. AS PER REFS F AND G, MBR MUST HAVE A CURRENT ANNUAL PHYSICAL FITNESS EVALUATION WITH A PASS RATING ACHIEVED NO MORE THAN ONE YEAR, OR AN EXPRES INCENTIVE EXEMPT PASS RATING (INCLUDING ANY APPLICABLE ENVIRONMENTAL OR OCCUPATION STANDARD ASSESSED AS EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN MPFS, I.E., LFCPFS, ETC.) ACHIEVED NO MORE THAN TWO YEARS, PRIOR TO ANY VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER (VOT)). PROOF OF MBR S STATUS MUST BE PROVIDED PRIOR TO THE
EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY VOT (I.E. AT TIME OF VOT OFFER)
5. CAREER IMPLICATIONS:
A. APPLICANTS MUST THOROUGHLY UNDERSTAND THE CONDITIONS OF SERVICE
AS OUTLINED IN REFS A, C AND D. APPLICANTS MUST ALSO BE AWARE THAT
THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF ACADEMIC OR TRAINING FAILURE ARE
REASSIGMENTS TO THEIR FORMER OCCUPATION, OR TO AN OCCUPTION THAT IS
OPEN AT THAT TIME OR RELEASE
B. SELECTED APPLICANTS WILL NO LONGER BELONG TO THEIR UNIT UPON
EFFECTIVE DATE OF VOT (APS 09 FOR MOST), AT WHICH TIME THEY WILL BE
POSTED TO THE NEAREST BTL OF THEIR HOME BASE TO AWAIT TRG
6. COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS:
A. UNITS MUST SEND THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS TO DMCA 5-3/OCCUPATION
TRANSFERS, NDHQ 7CBN, 101 COLONEL BY DRIVE, OTTAWA, ON K1A OK2:
(1) COMPLETED VOT APPLICATION FORM AT REF E (PARTS 1-5)
(2) CF 285 PERSONNEL SELECTION REPORT
(3) UP TO DATE MPRR INCLUDING FITNESS RESULTS (NOT EMAA VERSION)
(4) WAIVER IF APPLICABLE
B. DO NOT SEND PERS FILES OR UERS TO DMCA 5-3
C. OFFERS FOR SUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS SHOULD COMMENCE EARLY FEB 09 AND
CONTINUE THROUGH END MAR 09. NO REQUESTS FOR UPDATES ON ACTIVE FILES
WILL BE CONSIDERED UNTIL 30 APR 09 AND MBRS MUST GO THROUGH THE UNIT
CHAIN OF COMMAND
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
How often does a new Aes Op course start? Do they run them at set times, or do they have to wait for a certain amount of people to fill a course, then run it?
A
aesop081
Guest
TangoHotel said:
Thats all about to change........wait out.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
There are now 8 new AES Ops, from BAC 0801.
Me and my flying partner were the last 2 to pass our check-rides today.
Now I am drinking many beers and can't wait for January '09 to come to start my OTU in Shearwater.
Cheers
Me and my flying partner were the last 2 to pass our check-rides today.
Now I am drinking many beers and can't wait for January '09 to come to start my OTU in Shearwater.
Cheers
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
Hey congrats Hoist-Monkey!
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Well dang it just saw the above post wrt to the deadline for COTP submissions, guess I'll have to wait until next season to re-muster, I want to get my PLQ done before I re-muster to AESOP, PLQ starts in a few weeks.
From the looks of it sounds like this will be the last time for COTPs. After this because of the direct entries it will be a regular AVOTP trade, which means I will be subject to the health of the trade when it comes time for my re-muster. I realize that I could stop my PLQ and persue the COTP but I think having a PLQ will help my chances greatly when it comes time to re-muster, beside that I don't think I'll have enough time to get my file ready before the deadline, besides might as well get this course over with while I've got the chance, eh?
From the looks of it sounds like this will be the last time for COTPs. After this because of the direct entries it will be a regular AVOTP trade, which means I will be subject to the health of the trade when it comes time for my re-muster. I realize that I could stop my PLQ and persue the COTP but I think having a PLQ will help my chances greatly when it comes time to re-muster, beside that I don't think I'll have enough time to get my file ready before the deadline, besides might as well get this course over with while I've got the chance, eh?
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
Do your PLQ. You have no guaruntee of a remuster, so don't give up a course...IMO.
And..regardless of AES Op moving from COTP to AVOTP, the health of your trade still comes into play either way. Green, Amber and Red healths apply to OTs, which COTP and AVOTP are part of.
You know...you could still check with your BPSO. Its not too late. I started my application last year in early Oct and had it complete, in a few weeks. On the medical side, you need to do the Aircrew Part I and II and be signed off as 'fit potential aircrew' for your application to move over, you don't need your actual Air Factor 2, Fit AES Op to make it to the selection board, although not getting it at a later time is a show-stopper.
You still have a month, the application is not that hard (really) and if your PSO was like mine, they helped push it right along. There is time if you want it bad enough (and if your CoC will not screw you around).
However, if your trade is red, there is a definite limited # of OTs out.
And..regardless of AES Op moving from COTP to AVOTP, the health of your trade still comes into play either way. Green, Amber and Red healths apply to OTs, which COTP and AVOTP are part of.
You know...you could still check with your BPSO. Its not too late. I started my application last year in early Oct and had it complete, in a few weeks. On the medical side, you need to do the Aircrew Part I and II and be signed off as 'fit potential aircrew' for your application to move over, you don't need your actual Air Factor 2, Fit AES Op to make it to the selection board, although not getting it at a later time is a show-stopper.
You still have a month, the application is not that hard (really) and if your PSO was like mine, they helped push it right along. There is time if you want it bad enough (and if your CoC will not screw you around).
However, if your trade is red, there is a definite limited # of OTs out.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Your right I will still start the application, if I get it done by the due date great if not at least I'll have the ball rolling early for the next selection board. I've waited this long to OT so what's a few more months or year.
No matter what happens though I am not staying NCIOP for much longer. Not that there's anything wrong with NCIOP it's just that I've acheived all I can from a trade perspective there is not much more to learn. I'm currently a SAAC-B and it is only a matter of time before they post in an officer to take my place, and I can't go back to being a Track Supervisor not after the sexy job of SAAC. I JUST CAN'T DO IT MAN!! lol. So afer spending a few years working with aircrews I figured I might as well be aircrew.
I'll have to admit though I'm abit apprehensive about starting all over again, but heck seems like the everyone I know is re-mustering to something these days.
No matter what happens though I am not staying NCIOP for much longer. Not that there's anything wrong with NCIOP it's just that I've acheived all I can from a trade perspective there is not much more to learn. I'm currently a SAAC-B and it is only a matter of time before they post in an officer to take my place, and I can't go back to being a Track Supervisor not after the sexy job of SAAC. I JUST CAN'T DO IT MAN!! lol. So afer spending a few years working with aircrews I figured I might as well be aircrew.
I'll have to admit though I'm abit apprehensive about starting all over again, but heck seems like the everyone I know is re-mustering to something these days.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
If you have any questions about the application, PM me if you want. I just jumped the hoops a year ago.
I will say this to you, despite what your CoC will say, Part 5 does not have to be signed off before your PSO interview. In fact, the PSO side is Part 4 for a reason. Part 5 is where your CO puts his/her comments. Every PSO shop is different but...thats how the FPSO was here (Halifax).
If you are really interested and going to try to make the deadline for the Selection Board in early 09, I suggest the 1st thing you do is get a Part I/II for 'fit potential aircrew' booked ASAP and let them be scared to let them know what its for (they changed the urgency of mine when I mentioned it was for aircrew), and when your submission date is so they can try to fit you in ASAP. You need the Part III of the application signed off by a Flt Surgeon as "fit potential aircrew" before the PSO shop can action anything. Very important part of the process.
I will say this to you, despite what your CoC will say, Part 5 does not have to be signed off before your PSO interview. In fact, the PSO side is Part 4 for a reason. Part 5 is where your CO puts his/her comments. Every PSO shop is different but...thats how the FPSO was here (Halifax).
If you are really interested and going to try to make the deadline for the Selection Board in early 09, I suggest the 1st thing you do is get a Part I/II for 'fit potential aircrew' booked ASAP and let them be scared to let them know what its for (they changed the urgency of mine when I mentioned it was for aircrew), and when your submission date is so they can try to fit you in ASAP. You need the Part III of the application signed off by a Flt Surgeon as "fit potential aircrew" before the PSO shop can action anything. Very important part of the process.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 460
JohnnyCanuck1977 said:
I think at one point we were all a little apprehensive about starting over, especially going into the AES Op trade where the Basic AES Op Course had a 40% (avg) fail rate. It's a decision that should be well thought out before making the jump.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
PLQ starts on the 28th Oct. Can't get my part 1 for aircrew done until around that time, so it looks unlikely that I will be able to get my file together in time. But like I said before at least I'll have my file completed and ready to go for the next round of COTP's. Of course from the scuttle butt I'm hearing it looks like this may be the last course run in the traditional format. After this course there is a real chance that this trade will allow general recruting which means that there will be a traditional QL3 followed by a QL4 and finally QL5. Not sure how the course will be broken down but I assume I won't be getting my Master's back for awhile after I remuster. On the bright side I'll already have my PLQ done,yay me. 
On a different note; anyone have any insight as to if the course format is changing?
On a different note; anyone have any insight as to if the course format is changing?
As a former NCIop, any amount of hassles to get into the AESop world is worth it. Best job in the Forces. Each day as I'm studying in school, i shake my head why did I leave,lol Damn women, but she is worth is,lol Check out http://aesoplounge.com/ 1 of the chiefs dropped a bit of info on the new course, as it is stil in the projects! http://www.aesoplounge.com/showthread.php?t=424
A
aesop081
Guest
JohnnyCanuck1977 said:
The AES Op QS writting board sits in Winnipeg later this month and runs for 3 weeks. Wait for that to be done and more info will start filtering through. Until then, its all rumours and people's opinions only.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
The stuff I am hearing via RUMINT is:
- QL3 (academic phase, in CADPAT, not flight suit)
- If you pass the QL3, then you go on to do AMT, BSERE, BEW and Sea Survival.
- Then back to CFANS (or whatever it will be called by then) for the QL5 *flying portion*. The QS for the soon-to-be-new QL3, etc hasn't even been written yet but is soon going to be, and one of our board members may be able to provide detailed info as he is on the writing board.
Speaking from a common sense point of view having worked inside the trng system for 14 years or so, that flow would make some sense. Why waste money putting someone thru AMT, BSERE, etc only to have them fail off for math at a later date? Thats just wasted time and money...but time will tell.
I'm am not even going to guess at changes to the MOCs OFP, Spec Pay qual, career progression, etc.
You can also get lots of info on the AES Op Lounge too.
http://aesoplounge.com/index.php
- QL3 (academic phase, in CADPAT, not flight suit)
- If you pass the QL3, then you go on to do AMT, BSERE, BEW and Sea Survival.
- Then back to CFANS (or whatever it will be called by then) for the QL5 *flying portion*. The QS for the soon-to-be-new QL3, etc hasn't even been written yet but is soon going to be, and one of our board members may be able to provide detailed info as he is on the writing board.
Speaking from a common sense point of view having worked inside the trng system for 14 years or so, that flow would make some sense. Why waste money putting someone thru AMT, BSERE, etc only to have them fail off for math at a later date? Thats just wasted time and money...but time will tell.
I'm am not even going to guess at changes to the MOCs OFP, Spec Pay qual, career progression, etc.
You can also get lots of info on the AES Op Lounge too.
http://aesoplounge.com/index.php
A
aesop081
Guest
Eye In The Sky said:
That would be me.
For everyone else, see my post above.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
CDN Aviator said:
Well, I didn't want to advertise that on your behalf 8)
Similar threads
