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Afghan Medals Process (merged)

Navalsnpr

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Good question, however we have had people in Kabul for many years now who still get the GCS and work in IJC. Additionally, the NTM-A personnel have also received the GCS. The guys and gals in Kabul get a lower Risk/Hazard pay than the guys in Kandahar region.

An educated guess would be that they will get continue to be issued the GCS.

 

Jungle

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The question is: are OP ATTENTION personnel going to be considered as people "who deploy into a defined theatre of operations to take part in operations in the presence of an armed enemy."

My educated guess is that OP ATTENTION will not involve going into operations against an armed enemy, so a case could be made to award the OSM-SWA.

I know pers in Kabul were not taking part in ops against an armed enemy, but they were serving under OP ATHENA, which had that mandate.
 

vonGarvin

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Jungle said:
The question is: are OP ATTENTION personnel going to be considered as people "who deploy into a defined theatre of operations to take part in operations in the presence of an armed enemy."

My educated guess is that OP ATTENTION will not involve going into operations against an armed enemy, so a case could be made to award the OSM-SWA.

I know pers in Kabul were not taking part in ops against an armed enemy, but they were serving under OP ATHENA, which had that mandate.

The key part is "operations in the presence of an armed enemy", not "taking part in operations against an armed enemy".  There are armed enemies in Kabul, so...
 

Journeyman

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Technoviking said:
There are armed enemies in Kabul, so...
  ???  I visited once and none of the Staff Officers or HQ personnel were armed.
 

vonGarvin

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Journeyman said:
  ???  I visited once and none of the Staff Officers or HQ personnel were armed.

I was talking about the enemy....oh....wait  ;)
 

Jungle

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Technoviking said:
The key part is "operations in the presence of an armed enemy", not "taking part in operations against an armed enemy".  There are armed enemies in Kabul, so...

The key part is "taking part in operations". Op Attention pers are not mandated, as far as I know, to do that. But hey... I'm sure someone will make a decision on this eventually and surprise us all.
 

vonGarvin

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Jungle said:
The key part is "taking part in operations". Op Attention pers are not mandated, as far as I know, to do that. But hey... I'm sure someone will make a decision on this eventually and surprise us all.
Training is an operation, hence the term "Operation" in "Operation Attention".
 

Infanteer

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Jungle said:
The question is: are OP ATTENTION personnel going to be considered as people "who deploy into a defined theatre of operations to take part in operations in the presence of an armed enemy."

That's the key factor that got me thinking that Op ATTENTION would be awarded the new Operational Service Medal (SOUTHWEST ASIA).  The OSM is operations in hazardous conditions, which may better fit the overall mission profile.
 

vonGarvin

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I get your point; however, I work with a guy that was in the KMTC (?) in Kabul in 2006.  He got the GCS-SWA for his service there.  With regards to the OSM-SWA, from the site:

This ribbon is mainly intended to recognize police and civilian service not under the authority of the CF in Afghanistan.

I know that info may be dated; however, given the precendence of the GCS-SWA being awarded for the training mission (previous) in Kabul, I would offer that it will likely be the GCS-SWA.


My  :2c:
 

Infanteer

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Technoviking said:
I know that info may be dated; however, given the precendence of the GCS-SWA being awarded for the training mission (previous) in Kabul, I would offer that it will likely be the GCS-SWA.

Makes sense.  The only overarching point is that everything under ATHENA was focused on a combat mission - regardless of whether one was training soldiers in Kabul or flying supplies into KAF, the overarching purpose was counter-insurgency operations in either Kabul (benign) or Kandahar (not benign).  This is not the case anymore, hence why we are moving to a completely new operation.

I think the issue may largely be a political one as you could make the case for either medal.  The CF may view a new medal as a good indication that we really have ceased combat missions.  I can see the same issue as when the SWASM/GCS flap broke out with ROTO 2; with an effort by DHR to distinguish between a mission focused on shooting and a mission focused on training.  As well, soldiers always like a new medal, so it may be a good morale thing.
 

Fdtrucker

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Not sure what KMTC is, but the link  has everyone who was first issued GCS with ISAF Bar now the GCS-SWA. The ETT (Embedded Trg Team) was issued the SWASM from 01 Oct 03 - 30 Nov 07.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/eli-adm/gscswael-seecgaso-eng.asp;
SWASM - http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/eli-adm/swasmael-semsasoa-eng.asp
 
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jollyjacktar

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Journeyman said:
  ???  I visited once and none of the Staff Officers or HQ personnel were armed.

That's ridiculous!  How could they drink champagne and eat canapes if they had no arms.
 

old fart

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Journeyman said:
  ???  I visited once and none of the Staff Officers or HQ personnel were armed.

ISAF HQ...true (generally no weapons carried by staff on the HQ)  CSTC-A as it was, weapons were carried, at all times.

Interesting point raised earlier on the pay difference...between Kabul and Kanadahar...will have to look into that....first I have heard of it.
 
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jollyjacktar

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It's true.  They were at a lower risk level than we were down south.  Can't comment on the fairness of it all as I never did see up north so I cannot compare.
 

Infanteer

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old fart said:
Interesting point raised earlier on the pay difference...between Kabul and Kanadahar...will have to look into that....first I have heard of it.

Here is the latest message surrounding hardship and risk levels for various locations - higer levels for both mean higher allowances.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/fs-se/hra-idr/2011/400-eng.asp
 

old fart

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jollyjacktar said:
It's true.  They were at a lower risk level than we were down south.  Can't comment on the fairness of it all as I never did see up north so I cannot compare.

Had the Coy Clerk check mine for the year I spent in 2008/9...I was level 5 (I presume Risk) and 4 (Hardship), I was told 5 and 4.... personally I was all over the country....so all looks well....although I have yet to see the print-out myself.

Not sure who called Kabul area benign....total bullshit...try telling that to the folks that died there....anything but benign.
 

Infanteer

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old fart said:
Not sure who called Kabul area benign....total bullshit...try telling that to the folks that died there....anything but benign.

I called it benign.  Reread the post.  Kabul, in fact much of Afghanistan, was quite benign in 2003-2005.  Kabul today is relatively benign compared to Helmand and Kandahar.

People can die anywhere; don't use that to as an illogical appeal.

 

old fart

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I was not comparing Kabul to any other area or province...just stating it is far from benign....Fact.
 

Scoobs

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I took care of H&A in KAF for 9 and a half months in the NCE, along with other duties, but H&A was "supposed" to be my primary role.

Medals, boy do pers get worked up over these.  This includes the lowest to highest ranks.

SWASM doesn't come into play anymore.  Hasn't for a while.  Besides, the key for receiving this was what the chain of command was (had to be directly under the Americans, not ISAF) and the geographic location.

GCS-SWA is what the new trg mission in Kabul area, etc., will get.  Once a mil pers enters the airspace or land of Afg, the clock starts counting towards receiving the GCS.  This is for ALL of Afg, including Kandahar or Kabul, doesn't matter which location.

 
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