Air force defends bonus pay system as pilots file dozens of grievances, refuse promotions

[SupersonicMax]

L

I have seen the spreadsheets some of the pilots have used for their grievances to justify the loss in potential earnings. But guess what, the key words are potential earnings. Not guaranteed earnings. The problem could indeed fix itself when you consider that there are only so many Capt positions to fill, and only a certain percentage of those positions will allow for someone to gain all the experience needed to reach the top gates and maximize the Capt salary band. Unlike the pay scale for GSOs, you don't automatically continue to move from incentive 1-20.

So as long in the tooth Capt fliers continue to fill instructor, Trg and Standards, flight lead, etc positions, there will be a decrease in training for newer pilots, thus limiting their potential earnings at the Capt rank. Individuals will then look to maximize potential earnings by taking that promotion.

What will likely happen is we will see a slinky action over the next decade as the system tries to self correct.

I can guarantee you this isn’t how it’s seen and lived.

 

[captloadie]

Because groups of individuals will learn how to gain the system so that it doesn't naturally work out on its own? Hard decisions had to be made, and cut-off lines needed to be implemented. No solution was going to make everyone happy.

And if I remember correctly, and this may have changed in the last six months, but there were only a handful of majors who were impacted by the pay scale change, and would actually earn less than if they had refused their promotion. Everything else is based on what-if scenarios.

 

[rnkelly]

And if I remember correctly, and this may have changed in the last six months, but there were only a handful of majors who were impacted by the pay scale change, and would actually earn less than if they had refused their promotion. Everything else is based on what-if scenarios.

Ack but I can confirm it’s not what if scenarios. More than a handful impacted and more than another handful who refused promotions as a direct result. The few (that I know) that went through the process of going down a rank (on principle), don’t regret it but let’s just say there were CoC consequences (being considered ungrateful disloyal bastards). Sky isn’t falling and I don’t think pilots deserve sympathy by any means but I’m just saying how it is for the small cross section that I know.

 

[dapaterson]

The need for NCM pilots who only fly, and a much smaller cadre of officer pilots who command is drawn out by this.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Because groups of individuals will learn how to gain the system so that it doesn't naturally work out on its own? Hard decisions had to be made, and cut-off lines needed to be implemented. No solution was going to make everyone happy.

And if I remember correctly, and this may have changed in the last six months, but there were only a handful of majors who were impacted by the pay scale change, and would actually earn less than if they had refused their promotion. Everything else is based on what-if scenarios.

To be, or to do... the Air Force paradox....

“Tiger, one day you will come to a fork in the road and you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go. He raised his hand and pointed. “If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments.”

Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed in another direction. “Or you can go that way and you can do something- something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won’t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference.

To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?”

― John Boyd

 

[Cloud Cover]

Sure except that Capt 5/6 got artificially boosted to 13 during the implementation (to not actually make less than they were making before the new pay scales), which disincentivizes promotion for folks that would have had the potential and desire to progress. The issue is temporary but critical as we’re desperately short of Majors.

So this is a major shortcoming ..

What if there are only 16 new airplanes on the books between now and infinity Gripens in 2045? Will there be a surplus of pilots?

 

[SupersonicMax]

So this is a major shortcoming ..

What if there are only 16 new airplanes on the books between now and infinity Gripens in 2045? Will there be a surplus of pilots?

If we don’t have F-35s on time, my guess is that we’ll keep flying the Hornet in the NORAD role until we have enough of the new fighter. We will still be short.

 

[dapaterson]

If we don’t have F-35s on time, my guess is that we’ll keep flying the Hornet in the NORAD role until we have enough of the new fighter. We will still be short.

The RCAF problem isn't pilots, it's fighter pilots.

They're just using the lack of the latter to increase pay for all of the pilots. Directed incentives for fighter pilots are seen as unfair to the rotary wing community who are paid significantly less on the civilian side.

Two decades ago it was noted that CAF pilots should be split into rotary, fixed wong, and fighter occupations, with different training regimes and pay scales for all three. The pilot community realizes that would be a divide and conquer situation, and so it never happened.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Because groups of individuals will learn how to gain the system so that it doesn't naturally work out on its own? Hard decisions had to be made, and cut-off lines needed to be implemented. No solution was going to make everyone happy.

And if I remember correctly, and this may have changed in the last six months, but there were only a handful of majors who were impacted by the pay scale change, and would actually earn less than if they had refused their promotion. Everything else is based on what-if scenarios.

They are not what if scenarios. We desperately need Majors and people will refuse promotion, and remove themselves from the promotion list. A lot more than a handful. Imagine you’re a Capt 13 making $14,080 a month. You’re promoted to major, making $14,464 a month in the first year. Over the next 3 years, the salary would increase to $14,938, 15,236, and 15,539.

The same person decides to remain Capt, making also $14,464 a month and then $15,228, $15,838 and $16,471 a month over the next 3 years after that. That’s a gross salary difference of $22,128 over four years, not including pension considerations.

This is for the same person, with the same qualifications and skills but a lot more responsibilities. Is that fair?

[td]

​

[/td]​

 

[Jarnhamar]

We desperately need Majors

This may be a dumb question but what's stopping the airforce from taking a captian and just telling them to do a majors job?

 

[SupersonicMax]

This may be a dumb question but what's stopping the airforce from taking a captian and just telling them to do a majors job?

We do sometimes. But it is a very difficult position to be put is as people tend to not listen to them.

 

[RangerRay]

So this is a major shortcoming ..

I see what you did there…