airsoft?

[Yeoman]

I've used all three systems. I was using simmunation and airsoft before I even joined up (used to work at a paintball field part time before I joined up, and did when I was in the MO's as well and we seen the police come through the field using sim stuff). personally I have always seen airsoft as a much more effective training method.
and just WHY would I say that?
well it's quite simple; it's cheaper, and to me a more effective training aid.
now I ain't about to go and guess at how much a box of sim stuff costs (because I don't remembe exactly) but to get 2200 rounds of bb's costs $20. and if you were doing 5 mags of 30 rounds? that's enough to supply almost 15 personel with 150 bb's.
sure the start up costs would be bloody expensive consider the cost of 5 mags, a battery, and the weapon brand new can be $800 in some scenarios, and to get a C9 can easily be 4 grand, as well as spart parts, battery chargers, training on them. however you can actually have your enemy force using different weapons then a c7 shooting at you, to make it that little bit more realisitc
another thing is that you wouldn't HAVE to wear flak vests because of power of a bb isn't as much as a sim round. I know of a few airsofters that wear flak vests while playing (and occasionally I have in the past), yes you can't really feel the round actually hitting your body, but you definetely will hear the round bouncing off of you. as well you do not have to wear that enormous, hot, and easily fogged up mask, neck protector, and jock. all you'd need is your ballistic goggles, and a mouth guard (small yes, but they can chip teeth) but if you were in the army, you should have both anyways.
mind you I do personally believe that simmunation is much better then having blanks and going "BANG! I HIT YOU!" (lame), I personally am not fond out being in the amount of pain I was in when I got hit in the ear from 10 feet with that sim round again (it made me drop like a rock), or having my body covered by all these little scars, or even bother attempting to clean those things like we do, or how you can not effectively use the scope that you have been trained to use on the rifles for your entire career.
of all and all as a conclusion; I'd much rather see airsoft being used as it would be a cheaper training method then simmunation in the long run, and much more safer as well, but with simmunation already in the system, I doubt that I will ever see that happen.
Greg

 

[youravatar]

The laser system that everyone is referring to is called MILES gear.

Yea, that's what the americans call it, we use whats called the "Weapons Effect Simulator or WES" tho virtually the same ours is better  ;D

 

[recce_dave]

Personally, I think MILES systems are kind of crap. I've been on too many exercises where MILES was employed and did not work. Either batteries were N/S, people removed them from their own bodies to avoid death (cheaters), or they just did not fire accurately. My opinion is that simunition is a far more realistic training aid in that a visible projectile comes down the pipe right at you. Its pretty hard to cheat with this, although there are always some who do. It lays down a suppresive fire for section attacks that is unmistakable when coming at you ... only a bit slower than when real bullets. I find it is best employed in a FIBUA/OBUA/whatever you want to call it setting as the range is not too far. It also gives a nice welt or even breaks the skin which gives a reminder of where you went wrong in your attack. The only crap part is the protective equipment you have to wear as it hampers ones visibility and breathing ... fog of war my ass!

 

[foerestedwarrior]

The sim kit you seen in the picture, and the talk of replacing the buffer, this is all the original versions that came up here. The newer one, that i have used since CAC '03 had a C8 length barrel, thus killing the need for replacing the buffer(it all had to do with gas pressure).

The airsoft rifles of now all have whats called hopup on them, it creates a back spin on them that makes it accurate out to longer ranges(range depends on many variables). Trust me, you will know when you have been shot, plus even with a full face mask and goggles, like this;

Paintball, is only inaccurate if you have a bad barrel, bad gun, or allowed it to get to full of paint or dirt. The easiest way to avoid this is to conduct maintenance on the guns, or have some one do it. Also carry a barrel squeegee,they solve all the ballbreaks/dirt problems inside your gun.

 

[Radop]

Personally, I think MILES systems are kind of crap. I've been on too many exercises where MILES was employed and did not work. Either batteries were N/S, people removed them from their own bodies to avoid death (cheaters), or they just did not fire accurately.

I think that miles gear is great training.  The value that we got out of it was excellent.  The cheaters are just kidding themselves because you can't do that with a real bullet.

 

[brihard]

Some units do FIBUA in Pet with platoon kits of paintball gear, either rented or purchased by the unit. I remember being in there this summer and finding paintball husks scattered here and there. A Tippmann 98 paintball gun goes for under 200 bucks, and is EXTREMELY rugged and reliable. The accuracy leaves something to be desired, but is perfectly adequate for room clearing oeprations. You can get paint for $50 for 2000 at WalMart. Not a quality of paint I'd ever use in an actual game, if possible, but again, perfectly suitable for short range stuff. The only issue would be having a CO2 fill station on site, but that's really not a problem.  the ncie thing about paintball is that the masks are far nicer to work in than those bloody Simunition masks. By using your CO2 tank as a buttstock, you can actually use the weapon's sights with the amsk on. It's an effective tool for teaching short range stuff- and it's a hell of a lot of fun.  ;D Paint grenades and such are available too.

 

[Da_man]

You know you revived this topic from July with the exact same question as the original?

IMO, Airsoft would make a usefull tool for fibua training, because or their size and realism, but can not replace range etc. because it is not accurate enough, like shooting a bb gun (which it essentially is) down the range. Airsoft fires at a velocity of about 350fps, and the projectiles are 6mm, and typically wheigh 0.2g. So, as you can imagine, they do not have close to the same physics as a real rifle, therefore they can't be relied upon for any training that involves the need for accuracy over 100ft.

isnt simunition actually designed for FIBUA?


IMO we shouldnt start using toys for warfare training