Alberta government thread

[Altair]

And then this action in regards to the ongoing health care probe. I do caution people to read the whole article as there is more to it than just the "gotcha" headline in terms of process but still questionable.

Alberta to search for a new auditor general even as Wylie offers two-year extension | Globalnews.ca

The Alberta NDP is accusing the governing UCP of getting rid of the provincial Auditor General before he can complete his investigation into a government health care scandal.

globalnews.ca

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Most corrupt government in Canada.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Class size and composition is a management right (power) and doesn't belong in contracts. Principals in particular require the power to shuffle sizes to accommodate fluctuations in cohort population, unbound by fixed limits.

Public needs should not be held hostage for compensation gains. Governments should disallow it if providers cannot restrain themselves. People undertaking careers to serve public needs - what used to be called "professions" - ought to understand there are implied sacrifices, including giving up the right to withhold labour.

It should be obvious by inspection that the long run of time during which public agencies could push their gains above the averages for the economy as a whole has ended. Nor can we afford every desirable improvement (eg. smaller class sizes in schools, home delivery for mail). The sum of services is being squeezed out by payroll costs, taxpayers facing current housing costs cannot tolerate tax increases (which would have practical upper limits anyways and would tend to depress economic growth), and governments are borrowing alarming amounts.

Fiscal and economic stresses are only likely to worsen, which means the eventual snap back will only be harder if people don't stop over-demanding.

 

[lenaitch]

Class size and composition is a management right (power) and doesn't belong in contracts. Principals in particular require the power to shuffle sizes to accommodate fluctuations in cohort population, unbound by fixed limits.

Public needs should not be held hostage for compensation gains. Governments should disallow it if providers cannot restrain themselves. People undertaking careers to serve public needs - what used to be called "professions" - ought to understand there are implied sacrifices, including giving up the right to withhold labour.

It should be obvious by inspection that the long run of time during which public agencies could push their gains above the averages for the economy as a whole has ended. Nor can we afford every desirable improvement (eg. smaller class sizes in schools, home delivery for mail). The sum of services is being squeezed out by payroll costs, taxpayers facing current housing costs cannot tolerate tax increases (which would have practical upper limits anyways and would tend to depress economic growth), and governments are borrowing alarming amounts.

Fiscal and economic stresses are only likely to worsen, which means the eventual snap back will only be harder if people don't stop over-demanding.

But what's to prevent every public service job from turning into a sweat shop? The wisdom and good graces of the employer? There was a time in this fair land when the majority of public sector jobs were unorganized. Pay was middling but they had pensions and benefits when a lot of population didn't, and pretty much a job for life so long as they didn't royally screw up (even then, . . . ).

I'm not a fan of the right to strike in the public service. It holds a monopoly on what services it provides. But the alternative has to be at least some form of mandatory arbitration.

I don't know much about life as a teacher, but more and more it seems society is foisting a lot of non-educational responsibilities into the system. This includes integrating students with special needs and requirements into regular classrooms. That, in and of itself, is a worthy endeavour, but it falls on top of the overall class size and often comes without specialized assistance.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There was a time

That time has passed. Government could basically say, "Going forward, all contracts will be COLA to a ceiling of 2%", or "gains/losses will be coupled to median non-governmental employment gains/losses". Very few other things need to enter contracts, especially if you understand that some things are "negotiated" in by ideologically sympathetic governments to provide future "tradesies" points when the government for (mostly) political reasons doesn't want to be seen handing out wage gains right now (ie. in the middle of a recession and/or period of high unemployment).

mandatory arbitration.

Never. It's a whipsaw game. It'd be practically impossible to stop arbitrators from looking outside government, and maybe even across governments, and you'd have unions throwing money to buttress apparently unrelated causes that are intended to provide benchmarks for future arbitration.

I don't know much about life as a teacher, but more and more it seems society is foisting a lot of non-educational responsibilities into the system.

That's partly imposed and partly self-inflicted. They don't want to be baby-sitters, but some do want to be social engineers.

This includes integrating students with special needs and requirements into regular classrooms. That, in and of itself, is a worthy endeavour, but it falls on top of the overall class size and often comes without specialized assistance.

Here I part company with most people. Frequently disruptive students don't belong in mainstream classrooms. As I've written before, the kids subjected to the interruptions and disruptions and lack of attention by teachers otherwise occupied are paying a "learning tax". Elementary class sizes, for example, could be a lot larger (by 25% or more), which would ease the shortage-of-teachers strain. I advocate a utilitarian approach to public education which for the overwhelming majority of students delivers a literate and numerate - or foundations-of-trade-prepared - adult at the end and ensures that the brightest in particular are well-prepared for highly demanding academic work and subsequent contributions back to society.

 

[HavokFour]

The AUPE vote has concluded.

At this rate the entire Province is going to end up striking.

Union representing 16,000 Alberta nurses and healthcare staff vote 98 per cent in favour of striking

Alberta Union of Public Employees (AUPE) representing nurses and health care staff say 98 per cent of members have voted to strike.

edmontonjournal.com

 

[lenaitch]

"Going forward, all contracts will be COLA to a ceiling of 2%", or "gains/losses will be coupled to median non-governmental employment gains/losses".

Seeing as another term for a labour contract is 'collective agreement', it doesn't sound like you would be leaving much to negotiate. What you are offering is closer to an 'at will' employment.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Seeing as another term for a labour contract is 'collective agreement', it doesn't sound like you would be leaving much to negotiate. What you are offering is closer to an 'at will' employment.

What's left to negotiate? I draw firm lines at everything I consider management powers. Most of the useful lifting has already been done with respect to health and safety and working hours and defining what is to be done and whatnot. What is left, and constitutes most bargaining, is variations of "more compensation".

People seeking higher compensation than COLA should be seeking employment where real productivity gains are happening, because productivity gains are ultimately the source of pretty much all gains. Most compensation gains in public agencies are dragged along by Baumol Effect and the increasing fiscal capacity of governments due to economic growth resulting from productivity gains and innovation in non-public employment. But increasing fiscal capacity is also targeted by public demands for more kinds of services and tax relief, not higher pay for the people providing the services already extant.

 

[foresterab]

The AUPE vote has concluded.

At this rate the entire Province is going to end up striking.

Union representing 16,000 Alberta nurses and healthcare staff vote 98 per cent in favour of striking

Alberta Union of Public Employees (AUPE) representing nurses and health care staff say 98 per cent of members have voted to strike.

edmontonjournal.com

That's the 4th of 4 unions negotiating.

1. Nurses under UNA were offered 12%. Strike vote occured in January and various minor actions happened but gov't/untion settled for 12% raises + grid adjustments making it closer to 18% on average in April 2025
2. AUPE general services were offered 12% Strike vote passed at 85% (June?) and settled for mix of grid/incentives/bonuses depending on local at a 60% acceptance in September
3. Teachers were offered 12%. See separate threads but will note over 90% voted to strike and did go on strike despite no pay. Legislated back to work in October
4. AUPE nursing workers. Offered 12%. No offer to match UNA for RNs' despite some members doing same jobs. 98% endorsement of strike vote by members.

Will note that all the union membership had very high endorsement of the strike votes and it's in part due to past promises made but not followed up.

I know at least 3 times they've offered COLA - good or bad depending on economy - in negotiations and every time the gov't has turned it down.

 

[lenaitch]

What's left to negotiate? I draw firm lines at everything I consider management powers. Most of the useful lifting has already been done with respect to health and safety and working hours and defining what is to be done and whatnot. What is left, and constitutes most bargaining, is variations of "more compensation".

People seeking higher compensation than COLA should be seeking employment where real productivity gains are happening, because productivity gains are ultimately the source of pretty much all gains. Most compensation gains in public agencies are dragged along by Baumol Effect and the increasing fiscal capacity of governments due to economic growth resulting from productivity gains and innovation in non-public employment. But increasing fiscal capacity is also targeted by public demands for more kinds of services and tax relief, not higher pay for the people providing the services already extant.

So, no unions, bargaining units or collective agreements. An acceptable class size could be 100 if the government so decides.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So, no unions, bargaining units or collective agreements. An acceptable class size could be 100 if the government so decides.

Sure, if what's left is an unappealing drain of money into union dues. Most working people are not members of bargaining units. Appealing to imaginary horror stories doesn't advance a case for unions.

 

[MilEME09]

ATA is holding a press conference this afternoon avout legal action over bill 2, given the NWC, I wonder what they can even challenge legally?

 

[HavokFour]

Becoming clear why Smith and the UCP are trying to make these recalls not happen.

https://leger360.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/Media-Release-AB-Gov-Report-Card-Oct-2025.pdf

https://twitter.com/x/status/1983695407835443630

 

[MilEME09]

More information coming out about the decision earlier this year to cancel public hearings into a coal mine. It paints the picture that the AER isnt as independent as it is said to be.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1986650686906638710

 

[MilEME09]

UCP seems hell bent on a Alberta pension plan, no matter what the people say which is unfortunate

https://twitter.com/x/status/1987284825771024885

 

[CBH99]

but at what cost? most teachers are burnt out working 50 or even 60 + hours a week, and when AB got rid of separate classes for those with unique learning needs, it caused even more stress for teachers. My own son in grade 3 needs extra help, he still hasn't gotten it because they dont have the EA's or space to assist him. It's something that really needs to be addressed, the teachers wanted it addressed but the province refused to discuss it. While average scores are high in most, how many students are below average and falling behind? thats a problem

Agreed. That is a problem.

I had understood the wage issue involved in the strike, but I was ignorant of some of the other issues that were also behind the strike (like the issue you mentioned above, which I agree is important)

...

I am still of the belief that ending the strike when they did was in the best interest of the student body 'at large' in terms of taking the stress off of families & not having to adjust summer holidays or graduation dates

BUT I am genuinely disappointed that such an important issue wasn't even addressed by the government, despite that being one of the big issues driving the strike in the first place.

...

(I mean honestly, wtf?? Can government beaurucrats stop drinking their 'retard juice' for a day or two, and just address the fucking issues at hand already? I mean you have decision makers from both sides sitting at a table, with one side already striking and causing pretty big headaches for the government because of their strike...and the issue just gets kicked down the road for someone else to eventually deal with? Leaving families like yours holding the bag because of their inability or refusal to just discuss the issue & find a solution. Pathetic.)
(I was one of those kids who was deemed special needs & needed the seperate classroom when in grades 3 & 4, so I can empathize with your situation to an extent. Getting rid of those was a huge mistake. I didn't know they had gotten rid of them until I read your post above just now.)

 

[MilEME09]

. I didn't know they had gotten rid of them until I read your post above just now.)

That was i 2011 the government made that decision, in the name of inclusion, but really it was to save money. The issues would just keep compounding over time.

I find it interesting we havent gotten a statement from the feds yet

 

[CBH99]

Are we expecting a statement from the feds in regards to the Alberta teacher's strike, tho?

 

[brihard]

Are we expecting a statement from the feds in regards to the Alberta teacher's strike, tho?

I don’t think the feds would see any reason to touch this one. It’s purely a provincial matter, and the feds are probably more interested in smoothing the federal relationship with Alberta, not poking them in the eye some more.

 

[CBH99]

UCP seems hell bent on a Alberta pension plan, no matter what the people say which is unfortunate

https://twitter.com/x/status/1987284825771024885

So I totally agree with you on the teacher strike stuff, but totally disagree with you on this pension plan stuff

...

I think the broad, underlying issue that the media seems to gloss right over is the deep and wide "Alberta vs Ottawa" trust issue, and the chasm that it is

Without acknowledging or reporting on that issue, it's hard to report on other Alberta vs Ottawa issues in their proper contexts

The deterioration of the relationship between Alberta and Ottawa started before Danielle Smith was even in office, when Trudeau was in office. (In terms of current issues, anyway)

And as long as the media's reporting on these issues paints these issues as seperate from one another, and doesn't report on what ties them all together, I feel like they are letting the public down and facilitating tensions where there doesn't need to be any

...

Premier Smith asked the public for their feedback in regards to an Alberta Pension Plan vs the current CPP

She held multiple town halls all over the province which she personally attended, and hosted several days of call-ins where people could share their views on the matter and why.

These public call-ins were broadcast live on both the radio and the internet, and were open to any member of the public to share their feelings on the matter.

It turned out a lot of the public were against the idea of an Alberta Pension Plan, mostly because they equated the idea to that of seperation.

And because of public opposition to the idea, it was shelved.

(The studies that were commissioned as to whether or not it was practically achievable & feasible were slated to take a while, and I believe this document was part of one of those studies)

...

If the document in that post is accurate, and the costs of administering the CPP have ballooned to that degree, it's probably prudent for provincial governments to ask themselves if they could do a better job or not.

The more it costs to administer the CPP, the less money there is to pay out to Canadians who have been paying into it their whole lives.

...


And what seems more plausible in, say, the next 10 or 20 years...

A financially stable Alberta government stealing our pensions?

Or a massively indebted federal government that can't pay it's own bills stealing our pensions?

 

[dapaterson]

The UCP are disingenuous, dishonest, and excel at using selective extracts to drive outrage. They are poor financial stewards.