All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[Halifax Tar]

Alberta has been systematically treated as a fiscal engine and political write off at the same time. No other province has had its core industry so directly targeted by federal policy while still being expected to bankroll the federation. You people (heh) in BC “ignoring Ottawa” worked because BC’s economy and political priorities generally aligned with federal direction. Alberta doesn’t have that luxury.

You could argue the Feds did the same thing to NFLD when they closed the cod fishery.

Right or wrong it's an economic hit that province is still trying to recover from.

 

[PrairieFella]

I was 15. I was in Eastern Ontario.

I remember Canadian flags everywhere and the My Canada Includes Quebec movement. Big rallies to show our wish for them to stay.

I also remember some anger towards separatists in Quebec. But not like I am seeing towards separatists in Alberta. And I remember the anger being more... I don't know the term... Educated, or informed maybe. There was was validity to the grievance.

What I see towards the movement in Alberta seems to be more based on pre-existing on political biases and beliefs and a rooted in central Canadian discard and disdain for issues and grievances from outside Ont and Quebec.

Youre seeing more palpable anger because theyre turning coat when the country is under economic and rhetorical attack from an increasingly irredentist USA. The timing and optics are making it impossible for the average Canadian to see them as anything but sellouts to the USA. At least the nationalist Quebecois genuinely want a country, the Alberta separatist leaders hardly hide the fact they just want to be Americans. Nevermind that its obvious that deep American pockets are funding them and that elements of the US state are running an info op on this. Theyre just bringing actual sovereigntists (useful idiots) along for the ride. Hell, one of their leaders is a bloody Yank.

 

[PrairieFella]

Agreed.

Canada has committed $20 billion to a country that went through this in the 90', and suffering an invasion for it now.

There's a lot.of reasons why it's not the same but also some similarities. Interesting that Canadians are calling Albertans who want to separate traitors while pledging support for Ukraine that asserted their independence.

Dont compare a historic ethnic group with over a thousand years of history who have historically faced genocide at the hands of the Russians before to a group of Western Canadians with just over a hundred years of history, no overarching culture or ethnicity and very high living standards.

Youre comparing apples to jumbo jets.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Youre seeing more palpable anger because theyre turning coat when the country is under economic and rhetorical attack from an increasingly irredentist USA. The timing and optics are making it impossible for the average Canadian to them as anything but sellouts to the USA. At least the nationalist Quebecois genuinely want a country, the Alberta separatist leaders hardly hide the fact they just want to be Americans. Nevermind that its obvious that deep American pockets are funding them and that elements of the US state are running an info op on this. Theyre just bringing actual sovereigntists (useful idiots) along for the ride. Hell, one of their leaders is a bloody Yank.

Canada needs to show Alberta why it's better off as part of Canada.

 

[Remius]

Canada needs to show Alberta why it's better off as part of Canada.

Most Albertans already see that.

Seperatists won’t care and don’t want to hear that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Most Albertans already see that.

I hope you're right if we end up having to find out.

 

[PrairieFella]

Canada needs to show Alberta why it's better off as part of Canada.

Vaguely motions South

Reason enough to me as a born and bred Western Canadian farmer.

 

[suffolkowner]

Canada needs to show Alberta why it's better off as part of Canada.

so another pipeline?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Dont compare a historic ethnic group with over a thousand years of history who have historically faced genocide at the hands of the Russians before to a group of Western Canadians with just over a hundred years of history, no overarching culture or ethnicity and very high living standards.

Youre comparing apples to jumbo jets.

Our arguments to keep Alberta as a part of Canada are probably the same Russia used in 1990. Including calling separatists traitors.

Writ large - smaller group provides an amount of resources in greater comparison to their neighbors and don't feel appreciated.

 

[McG]

I've been thinking a lot about a term @Remius used and introduced me too the tyrany of the majority.

Tyranny of the majority is what FPTP was designed to produce. It’s what gives majority governments to less than majority winners, it’s what leads to governments that lack regional representation, and it’s what feed the false narrative that provinces are uniform seas of red, blue, or orange.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Tyranny of the majority is what FPTP was designed to produce. It’s what gives majority governments to less than majority winners, it’s what leads to governments that lack regional representation, and it’s what feed the false narrative that provinces are uniform seas of red, blue, or orange.

Understood. And I'm a guy who voted for JT and the LPC in 2015 based on his promises of electoral reform.

 

[McG]

He walked that back out of greed. He tasted power and wanted to keep it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Understood. And I'm a guy who voted for JT and the LPC in 2015 based on his promises of electoral reform.

Trudeau promises. Did he ever keep one? Anyone winning under FPTP, will never test those votes by changing the rules.

At least you're able to change your mind based on new info. Your liberal counterparts, not so much.

 

[Brad Sallows]

FPTP gives tyranny of the minority; parties rarely win majorities.

Almost any of the envisioned reforms would produce a tyranny of the majority based on an approximately permanent coalition of 2 of the 3 major federal parties.

 

[QV]

Youre seeing more palpable anger because theyre turning coat when the country is under economic and rhetorical attack from an increasingly irredentist USA. The timing and optics are making it impossible for the average Canadian to see them as anything but sellouts to the USA. At least the nationalist Quebecois genuinely want a country, the Alberta separatist leaders hardly hide the fact they just want to be Americans. Nevermind that its obvious that deep American pockets are funding them and that elements of the US state are running an info op on this. Theyre just bringing actual sovereigntists (useful idiots) along for the ride. Hell, one of their leaders is a bloody Yank.

Turncoats, sellouts, useful idiots. Im sure you can come with more. Then there is the Quebec empathy tossed in. Suggesting Canada is under economic attack but ignoring Ottawa’s economic attack on Alberta since Trudeau senior.

You're doing awesome keep going.

 

[Remius]

Turncoats, sellouts, useful idiots. Im sure you can come with more.

Cry babies, whiners, wannabes etc. Lots more. Your mistake is thinking all that is aimed at Albertans. It’s aimed at loud separatists.

Then there is the Quebec empathy tossed in.

Again, you are off the mark or not in tune with reality. This just reinforces above the above. if you want what Quebec has be smarter and a bit more sophisticated. Every province can do it. So can you. If you are butt hurt at a couple of rallies n 1995 while ignoring 400 years of political négociations through talks, violence and back and forth that is on you.

Suggesting Canada is under economic attack but ignoring Ottawa’s economic attack on Alberta since Trudeau senior.

Yeah, that MOU really attacked them. Smith seems to like the new relationship with Ottawa.

You're doing awesome keep going.

He is.

 

[QV]

I knew you’d jump in to white knight for PF with more insults. It’s like clockwork. You just cant help yourself with jabs.

A bunch more name calling.
Alberta is not as sophisticated or smart as Que.
Que has been fighting longer so suck it up.

All awesome. I mean with more of this, I can’t imagine why Albertans wouldn't just embrace this and beg for more.

 

[Remius]

I knew you’d jump in to white knight for PF with more insults. It’s like clockwork. You just cant help yourself with jabs.

Glad I’m becoming predictable to you. Neither can you so there you go.

A bunch more name calling.

Yes. That is what is being used. That’s what you asked for so I gave you a few more examples. You forgot who it actually is directed at. Separatists won’t be convinced by any love in or bribe or whatever. Same with Quebec separatists.

Alberta is not as sophisticated or smart as Que.

The separatist approach isn’t. Like I mentioned, they’ve been at this game far longer than Alberta's movement has.

Que has been fighting longer so suck it up.

Um that wasn’t what was said.

All awesome. I mean with more of this, I can’t imagine why Albertans wouldn't just embrace this and beg for more.

Most Albertans aren't separatists. Separatists need to be called out. Sorry not sorry if it hurts their feelings.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think Quebec is intent on separation before Alberta. They are under pressure. If they don't manage to start negotiating first, much of their plan will be contingent on the deal Canada makes with another separatist province.

Whatever the case, I don't know how Quebec will survive separation without the billions of transfer payment from Alberta.

 

[Remius]

I think Quebec is intent on separation before Alberta.

I agree that the sentiment is higher in QC and likely has a bigger likelihood than Albertan seperation.

They are under pressure. If they don't manage to start negotiating first, much of their plan will be contingent on the deal Canada makes with another separatist province.

Those négociations one way or another will set precedent. If we look at Brexit, now, I doubt any other country is interested in leaving under the deal dealt to Britain for example.

Whatever the case, I don't know how Quebec will survive separation without the billions of transfer payment from Alberta.

Myth.

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However, ANY province, will be facing fiscal uncertainties and likely lowered standard of living as a result.