All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[Fishbone Jones]

Don’t be like that.

I remember how incensed you were at the Tides Foundation messing with Pipeline and Climate change politics in Canada. Or China and several MPs.

Foreign interference in our country is wrong, regardless who is doing it.

That was supposed to be sarcasm. Although you'll get no argument out of me on your answer.

Hopefully other outlets pick it up and run with it too. Likely foreign interference in the Alberta independence movement should be a very significant story.

Why? Just like our elections. Everyone knows China, India and Russia run info ops on Canada 24/7/365, yet we don't pay any attention to it or do anything about it. The government certainly doesn't seem to care. Case in point, the Canada’s Foreign Influence Transparency Registry bill was passed in June 2024. That's where it stopped. We have no registry almost 2 years later.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That was supposed to be sarcasm. Although you'll get no argument out of me on your answer.

Why? Just like our elections. Everyone knows China, India and Russia run info ops on Canada 24/7/365, yet we don't pay any attention to it or do anything about it. The government certainly doesn't seem to care. Case in point, the Canada’s Foreign Influence Transparency Registry bill was passed in June 2024. That's where it stopped. We have no registry almost 2 years later.

My apologies on missing the sarcasm.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That was supposed to be sarcasm. Although you'll get no argument out of me on your answer.

Why? Just like our elections. Everyone knows China, India and Russia run info ops on Canada 24/7/365, yet we don't pay any attention to it or do anything about it. The government certainly doesn't seem to care. Case in point, the Canada’s Foreign Influence Transparency Registry bill was passed in June 2024. That's where it stopped. We have no registry almost 2 years later.

When you start to recognize the polarlization and hyper biases that have permeated our country and politics it all becomes easier to understand.

As longs its for the righteous movement I belong its for the greater good.

 

[brihard]

Why? Just like our elections. Everyone knows China, India and Russia run info ops on Canada 24/7/365, yet we don't pay any attention to it or do anything about it. The government certainly doesn't seem to care. Case in point, the Canada’s Foreign Influence Transparency Registry bill was passed in June 2024. That's where it stopped. We have no registry almost 2 years later.

Ok, maybe you don’t care. Maybe the government doesn’t care (though I don’t agree with that opinion). I care. I know some others care. Personally I think if foreign states are in fact meddling in a secessionist movement in Canada, that’s a big deal. Not all Canadians may be concerned about that. Some of us care.

It’s fine if we disagree on this one.

 

[FSTO]

Quebec existed before Canada, seperatists there point a distinct cultural heritage and have some arguments about protection of its culture

Alberta was created to make administering the NWT easier and the seperatists there want to pay less taxes, and based on some reporting have fewer brown people around.

An inconvenient truth for Quebec Nationalists/Separatists is that Montcalm's defeat at the hands of Wolfe on the Plains of Abraham saved French Canadian culture.

New France was losing the population war to the New England colonies and it was only a matter of time before they would be overwhelmed by the superior numbers of English colonists. Also the French monarch's indifference to the their NA colony meant there would be no support from the continent.

I don't know if the UK was cognizant of the growing issue in their coastal colonies, but if they did consider it, they wouldn't want another rebellion problem on their northern NA flank and as a result allowed Quebec to basically keep its autonomy in language, laws, and faith. Pontiac's rebellion only solidified the goal to keep the peace to the North and NW.

Now if New France still existed in 1775, the UK would not of had a loyal base of operations to blunt attacks from the rebels and there is no reason to think that New France could have held out against a rapacious new republic who was straining at the bit to occupy the Ohio Valley and spread west and north.

More than likely the USA of today would exist from Ellesmere Island to the Rio Grande and the Quebec of today (if it even existed) would be a colder version of Louisiana.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Separatists deal in emotion, not historical fact….

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ok, maybe you don’t care. Maybe the government doesn’t care (though I don’t agree with that opinion). I care. I know some others care. Personally I think if foreign states are in fact meddling in a secessionist movement in Canada, that’s a big deal. Not all Canadians may be concerned about that. Some of us care.

It’s fine if we disagree on this one.

No, don't get me wrong bri, I too care. Very much so. It's our inept, non caring government I hold my biggest contempt for. I mean, the bill has passed, the heavy lifting is done. What is so difficult in producing a form to fill out and register. Perhaps a WAG, on my part, that the interference helps the liberals and they are in no hurry to make it go away, by actually making the registry work as intended?

 

[brihard]

No, don't get me wrong bri, I too care. Very much so. It's our inept, non caring government I hold my biggest contempt for. I mean, the bill has passed, the heavy lifting is done. What is so difficult in producing a form to fill out and register. Perhaps a WAG, on my part, that the interference helps the liberals and they are in no hurry to make it go away, by actually making the registry work as intended?

The commissioner was finally recently named. Draft regulations were published a few months back, and likely quite a lot of commentary received. The regulations are going through Department of Justice and various other stakeholders now to be refined into a final form for enactment. The foreign agents registry is going to be heavily regulatory, so it’s important they get that right.

I’m disappointed in how long it took to get to the draft regulations stage, but there’s likely lot I don’t know about the complexity in that one. All that said. It’s finally just about in place, FWIW.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Separatists deal in emotion, not historical fact….

Serious separatists probably look to the separation in NA that was highly successful. No negotiations; sever ties; redesign government. Settle disputes with military action. Minorities get whatever the majority decides.

 

[Altair]

An inconvenient truth for Quebec Nationalists/Separatists is that Montcalm's defeat at the hands of Wolfe on the Plains of Abraham saved French Canadian culture.

New France was losing the population war to the New England colonies and it was only a matter of time before they would be overwhelmed by the superior numbers of English colonists. Also the French monarch's indifference to the their NA colony meant there would be no support from the continent.

I don't know if the UK was cognizant of the growing issue in their coastal colonies, but if they did consider it, they wouldn't want another rebellion problem on their northern NA flank and as a result allowed Quebec to basically keep its autonomy in language, laws, and faith. Pontiac's rebellion only solidified the goal to keep the peace to the North and NW.

Now if New France still existed in 1775, the UK would not of had a loyal base of operations to blunt attacks from the rebels and there is no reason to think that New France could have held out against a rapacious new republic who was straining at the bit to occupy the Ohio Valley and spread west and north.

More than likely the USA of today would exist from Ellesmere Island to the Rio Grande and the Quebec of today (if it even existed) would be a colder version of Louisiana.

Maybe they just needed to hold out until 1805, then they would have the help of Napoleon.

 

[McG]

Separatists deal in emotion, not historical fact….

and not present facts either.

 

[MilEME09]

interesting break down, the biggest group pro separation are UCP voters who make over 150k a year. given that the top 20% of income earners in AB hold over 47% of the wealth in the province, the largest income inequality gap in the country. it really paints the picture of the rich driving this movement, while the middle class are against it

https://twitter.com/x/status/2049133924564291649

 

[Altair]

Withal recent poll putting support for separation in Quebec at 26 percent, i think this makes Albertans the ones most wanting to leave Canada.

Dark days for the separatist factions, reduced to (and in one case, always were) jokes

 

[HavokFour]

interesting break down, the biggest group pro separation are UCP voters who make over 150k a year. given that the top 20% of income earners in AB hold over 47% of the wealth in the province, the largest income inequality gap in the country. it really paints the picture of the rich driving this movement, while the middle class are against it

https://twitter.com/x/status/2049133924564291649

CBC article about the poll.

Support for Alberta separatism flat, struggling high earners more likely supporters: poll​

 

[Halifax Tar]

Withal recent poll putting support for separation in Quebec at 26 percent, i think this makes Albertans the ones most wanting to leave Canada.

Dark days for the separatist factions, reduced to (and in one case, always were) jokes

They, Alberta, are arguably the one who could make the best go of it. Alberta provides something for Canada, Quebec is a drain. I'm not sure their independence would work out as well.

Not that Id expect Alberta to be all peaches and cream.

 

[brihard]

They, Alberta, are arguably the one who could make the best go of it. Alberta provides something for Canada, Quebec is a drain. I'm not sure their independence would work out as well.

Not that Id expect Alberta to be all peaches and cream.

Quebec’s got nine million people, a fifth of Canada’s GDP, Atlantic access through North America’s 9th busiest container port, a major international airport, abundant cheap electricity generation, massive geography with both national resource and agricultural sectors and a ton of potential for more, manufacturing, services, aerospace, tech, a pretty healthy and educated population and quite a lot of human capital…

It’s far from a panacea of economic greatness, but it’s also not some economic backwater doomed to failure. Obviously leaving Canada would do great harm, but don’t mistake equalization payment balances with overall economic importance and potential.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Quebec’s got nine million people, a fifth of Canada’s GDP, Atlantic access through North America’s 9th busiest container port, a major international airport, abundant cheap electricity generation, massive geography with both national resource and agricultural sectors and a ton of potential for more, manufacturing, services, aerospace, tech, a pretty healthy and educated population and quite a lot of human capital…

It’s far from a panacea of economic greatness, but it’s also not some economic backwater doomed to failure. Obviously leaving Canada would do great harm, but don’t mistake equalization payment balances with overall economic importance and potential.

Good stuff, Quebec's economic prowess is defiantly a key in their would be independence.

 

[QV]

Simple comparison table​

Metric	Quebec	Alberta
Population	~8.5–9M (~23%)	~4.7–4.8M (~11–12%)
Share of Canada GDP	~19%	~15%
GDP per capita	Lower	Higher

Twice population but certainly not twice the share of Canada GDP.

 

[MilEME09]

Simple comparison table​

Metric	Quebec	Alberta
Population	~8.5–9M (~23%)	~4.7–4.8M (~11–12%)
Share of Canada GDP	~19%	~15%
GDP per capita	Lower	Higher

Twice population but certainly not twice the share of Canada GDP.

except that high GDP per capita is concentrated in the top 20% of the population who earn 47% of the wages in AB. The rich, poor gap in AB is massive

 

[brihard]

Good stuff, Quebec's economic prowess is defiantly a key in their would be independence.

Prowess? Your word, not mine. I was just saying they’re a meaningful economic part of Canada.

Simple comparison table​

Metric	Quebec	Alberta
Population	~8.5–9M (~23%)	~4.7–4.8M (~11–12%)
Share of Canada GDP	~19%	~15%
GDP per capita	Lower	Higher

Twice population but certainly not twice the share of Canada GDP.

Nobody said they were. Alberta continues, for the time being and for a while yet, but not indefinitely, to enjoy the economic fruits of a specific natural resource boom. They still have a couple decades to prepare and diversify economically in other directions, and hopefully they do. When demand for oil begins to eventually level off and reduce, Alberta, as a higher cost producer, will be hit relatively early by that. Now’s the time to be using that oil revenue to boost human capital and infrastructure to build resilience against that eventual inevitability.