All things beardy-2005 to 2018 (merged)

[Ex Lorne]

Just to throw this out there...

CFSU(Ottawa) Home > Standing Orders state...

http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/so-op/soc-opc-03-eng.asp

Beards: Navy personnel who wish to grow full beards shall request permission in writing to discontinue shaving from their Commanding Officer/Commandant. In arriving at a decision, the Commanding Officer/Commandant shall take into account the ability of the individual to grow a beard, in addition to other service requirements. When permission has been granted, the member shall:
be issued with written authority to discontinue shaving;
not appear in public in uniform until the Commanding Officer/Commandant has approved the beard. When traveling between residence and place of duty, member shall be in civilian clothes regardless of the method of travel;
within 30 days of permission being granted to discontinue shaving, appear before his Commanding Officer or delegated authority for an assessment of acceptability of the beard for wear with CF uniform in public; if the beard is unsatisfactory, permission to discontinue shaving shall be rescinded; and
retain the beard for a minimum of 12 months and get a new military identification.

 

[armyvern]

Just to throw this out there...

CFSU(Ottawa) Home > Standing Orders state...

http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/so-op/soc-opc-03-eng.asp

Beards: Navy personnel who wish to grow full beards shall request permission in writing to discontinue shaving from their Commanding Officer/Commandant. In arriving at a decision, the Commanding Officer/Commandant shall take into account the ability of the individual to grow a beard, in addition to other service requirements. When permission has been granted, the member shall:
be issued with written authority to discontinue shaving;
not appear in public in uniform until the Commanding Officer/Commandant has approved the beard. When traveling between residence and place of duty, member shall be in civilian clothes regardless of the method of travel;
within 30 days of permission being granted to discontinue shaving, appear before his Commanding Officer or delegated authority for an assessment of acceptability of the beard for wear with CF uniform in public; if the beard is unsatisfactory, permission to discontinue shaving shall be rescinded; and
retain the beard for a minimum of 12 months and get a new military identification.

Yes. For Naval pers wishing to grow a beard (ie: those who wish to DISCONTINUE shaving) ...

He is Navy and already HAS the beard. His new Unit is requesting a memo ... not required.

 

[OldSolduer]

You're right Vern, but he's probably caught by some generic "everyone on the course with a beard needs a memo", whether the justification is a quote from the Dress Manual or an attached chit from their unit MO (for the med excuses),

And common sense be damned!! 

 

[Michael OLeary]

If it was common we wouldn't spend so much time talking about it.

 

[PuckChaser]

He's going to CFSCE, its a quagmire of wierd rules sometimes.

 

[dapaterson]

He's going to CFSCE, its a quagmire of weird rules sometimes.

Fixed that for you.

(Though the whole "quagmire of weird rules" can be applied to the whole of Kingston, it seems...)

 

[OldSolduer]

If it was common we wouldn't spend so much time talking about it.

You, sir, are correct!

He's going to CFSCE, its a quagmire of wierd rules sometimes.

Signals Corp, weird rules....sounds like the entire CF somedays!!

 

[Occam]

By no means am I actually advocating that you do this, but I would continue sending them back to the Dress Manual until they get it through their skulls that you submit a request to cease shaving, not to request to continue to cease shaving.  Somewhere along the line, common sense has gotten a swift kick in the 'nads.  You probably showed up for course after a day or two of travel.  Unless you're Cro-Magnon man, you didn't grow the beard while in transit, and you probably didn't get your ID card changed without having to produce your memo.  Your staff needs to find something productive to do without creating additional administrative workload.

If my days in uniform weren't numbered, I'd grow a beard myself and get myself loaded on a course down at CFSCE so that I could watch a few heads explode from the migraines that I'd cause.  I wish to hell that someone would strangle the living crap out of the stupidity that seems to be infecting several organizations.

 

[ModlrMike]

I do have it currently, but I have no proof that I was ever allowed to have the beard.  Maybe I'm confused but the refs seem to indicate I at least need permission, and my staff requires that I have a memo.

Is your initial request not on your Pers file or even UER? Notwithstanding rather than tie yourself up in knots, submit the memo with the reference provided here, and carry on. Something simple and succinct, no more that one or two sentences. Attach the reference to your memo.

Sometimes it's easier to cave into stupidity than fight it. The unfortunate outcome is that the stupidity persists. As someone wiser than me said:

"Never argue with a fool, someone watching might not be able to tell the difference between you."

That being said, I agree that you shouldn't have to go through this.

 

[Sig_Des]

He's going to CFSCE, its a quagmire of wierd rules sometimes.

Or to quote a General I once heard "a conundrum of ***kery"

 

[Occam]

Is your initial request not on your Pers file or even UER? Notwithstanding rather than tie yourself up in knots, submit the memo with the reference provided here, and carry on. Something simple and succinct, no more that one or two sentences. Attach the reference to your memo.

Sometimes it's easier to cave into stupidity than fight it. The unfortunate outcome is that the stupidity persists.

This is definitely the easiest, and probably best course of action.  Personally, I'm not one to make things easy for those who fail to learn from their mistakes and employ common sense whenever possible.  >

 

[Gunner98]

Sample shaving request from a Naval School is attached that may assist you.

 

[LoKe]

Sample shaving request from a Naval School is attached that may assist you.

Thanks for that!

 

[ModlrMike]

Personally, I'm not one to make things easy for those who fail to learn from their mistakes and employ common sense whenever possible.  >

Normally, neither am I. It comes down to three words though:

cost benefit ratio

 

[BernDawg]

Are you sporting a beard on your ID?  If so, I would imagine it's case closed. If not then I see where the request for authorization is coming from. Either way good luck. I always disliked the "on this course" mentality experienced at some institutions.

 

[Ex Lorne]

Are you sporting a beard on your ID?  If so, I would imagine it's case closed. If not then I see where the request for authorization is coming from. Either way good luck. I always disliked the "on this course" mentality experienced at some institutions.

That is a good point... if your ID card has a beard, the you should be good to go!  But of course if it doesn't, well then i can see where your staff is coming from.

as they say.... "It is what it is"! 

 

[LoKe]

I appreciate all the assistance, but the matter is closed.  My memo was returned to me today, denied on the basis that I'm a QL3 student.

 

[Occam]

I appreciate all the assistance, but the matter is closed.  My memo was returned to me today, denied on the basis that I'm a QL3 student.

Denied by whom?

That's odd, I don't recall seeing anything in CFP 265 about QL3 students not being allowed to wear beards.  A lot of things about the C&E trades are starting to make sense now that I've seen some of the stuff coming out of CFSCE.

 

[LoKe]

I'm not even really sure.  The memo stopped half way up the chain.  The QL3 course director put a minute on the memo not recommending approval, and it was given back to me.

 

[Occam]

Now that's interesting.  Whoever your QL3 course director is likely doesn't have authority to grant or deny your request, so they shouldn't be intercepting your correspondence addressed to the CO/Commandant and firing it back at you.  What rank is this course director?