All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

[Jarnhamar]

There's a really good movie on Netflix now called "Don't Look Up" that really puts our current world and all these arguments into great perspective. Basically they discover that a comet is going to hit the earth in about 6 months and everyone wastes the whole 6 months arguing whether it's real or not.

And also whether they should destroy it or plunder it for resources.

 

[Remius]

And also whether they should destroy it or plunder it for resources.

Or how everyone is preoccupied with the president’s and Ariana Grande’s personal relationships in the news cycle

 

[kev994]

Is it 20% of the total population or 20% of the eligible population that joint to begin with.

Good point. I don’t see us recruiting many children under 5.

Percent of TOTAL Population including itty bitty babies

 

[kev994]

The govt has been doing that since Mar 2020. I'm not sure how much more aware people can be.

Thing is that people forget that science, especially with a dynamic thing such as Covid, isn't a direct line from discovery to perfect answers. There will be hypotheses that turn out to be wrong, and answers that we thought were right due to the info at the time but turned out to be wrong. The "back and forth" with masks, vaccines, etc is all part of that.

The problem is that the anti-vax and hesitant folks see those failed "answers" as proof that the govt is lying or that there is some "plandemic", rather than the medical folks learning more about the virus and amending recommendations based on it.

I don’t even get where some of these professional conspirators think this is going. “It’s all about controlling you by making you wear a mask.” To what end? And by every government and most healthcare professionals in the world? As a government employee I can honestly say that I have zero faith that any government could organize this.
Best that I can come up with is that it’s all about conspiracy click bait.

 

[Quirky]

There's a really good movie on Netflix now called "Don't Look Up" that really puts our current world and all these arguments into great perspective. Basically they discover that a comet is going to hit the earth in about 6 months and everyone wastes the whole 6 months arguing whether it's real or not.

Hollywood is obsessed with trump and the republican party, however the movie is fairly accurate.

We do need to do a lot better at recruiting and retention, but needs to be the right people. Someone who can't leave the country is going to be a problem for employment, so maybe you can work around it for someone already trained, but otherwise it's a huge investment for nothing.

Not sure about anyone else, but know a few dozen people that got COVID over the holidays, but because they are vaccinated, so far no significant issues. 90% of the hospitalizations/deaths are among the unvacced/not fully vacced, despite being the minority of the population, so impossible to credibly argue that the vaccine isn't effective. But you know, muh freedums!

We aren't helping ourselves. Undesirable employer, public scandals, terrible recruiting system from advertising to wait time getting to basic, horrible posting locations be it unaffordability or remoteness etc etc. Good luck with your manning problem CF.

Ironically enough, we are releasing, arguably, the healthiest members of society who are the most likely to fight this thing naturally. Vaccines aren't the end-all be-all, obesity and personal health is still a real problem in society and just as an epidemic. The vast majority of people needing medical care for covid have health issues and are over 60. The demographic the CF typically doesn't retain on a normal basis.

Good point. I don’t see us recruiting many children under 5.

Percent of TOTAL Population including itty bitty babies

We aren't recruiting much of anyone these days.

 

[ballz]

I don’t even get where some of these professional conspirators think this is going. “It’s all about controlling you by making you wear a mask.” To what end? And by every government and most healthcare professionals in the world? As a government employee I can honestly say that I have zero faith that any government could organize this.
Best that I can come up with is that it’s all about conspiracy click bait.

Of course they couldn't. However, it is the natural tendency of all governments to centralize more and more power at the top and eventually become a dictatorship. More of a natural phenoma / freak accident due to continuous human incompetence than a conspiracy. So I do have a place in my heart for the skeptics.

We aren't helping ourselves. Undesirable employer, public scandals, terrible recruiting system from advertising to wait time getting to basic, horrible posting locations be it unaffordability or remoteness, retaining/promoting absolute asshats that make everyone around them suffer by virtue of their existence, etc etc. Good luck with your manning problem CF.

Ironically enough, we are releasing, arguably, the healthiest members of society who are the most likely to fight this thing naturally. Vaccines aren't the end-all be-all, obesity and personal health is still a real problem in society and just as an epidemic. The vast majority of people needing medical care for covid have health issues and are over 60. The demographic the CF typically doesn't retain on a normal basis.

Let's not forget a really serious retention killer... COVID-19 my be the crutch the CAF needed to grow a spine and put a lot of the garbage out at the curb, and could help future retention issues.

 

[Quirky]

Let's not forget a really serious retention killer... COVID-19 my be the crutch the CAF needed to grow a spine and put a lot of the garbage out at the curb, and could help future retention issues.

Can we afford to put the garbage to the curb? Even the mcdonalds of the world need staff to flip burgers and mop floors, not everyone will become management. We are already promoting complete asshats who have spent a decade in rank, but due to empty spots they get the bump. With the state of recruiting, the Mcpl rank will become the new private.

 

[ballz]

Can we afford to put the garbage to the curb?

If we don't, we will continue to lose good people at the cost of retaining bad people. You seem to be missing the point I'm making in that I think kicking shitbirds out will pay itself back in multiples. We've been trying the "don't get rid of anybody, we're too short-staffed" strategy for a long time and it's not working... all it does is cause good people to leave instead.

Even the mcdonalds of the world need staff to flip burgers and mop floors, not everyone will become management.

Uhhh, not in McDonald's no... but in our organization the CAF, yes.

We are already promoting complete asshats who have spent a decade in rank, but due to empty spots they get the bump.

You mean, due to the fact that we didn't get rid of them even though we knew they were a complete asshat, they eventually got the bump... which is what you are advocating we continue.

I have no problems promoting competent people faster and at a younger age, at the expense of them not having as much experience and at the expense of those whose only noteworthy quality is "he's got the most time-in-rank."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Can we afford to put the garbage to the curb?

Not putting the garbage to the curb contributed to a $1 billion settlement for victims (many who probably didn't stick around) and our leadership splashed across the national news ever other week.

 

[Quirky]

We've been trying the "don't get rid of anybody, we're too short-staffed" strategy for a long time and it's not working... all it does is cause good people to leave instead.

I agree that there are people who can't do their jobs and would otherwise be fired from their trade in the real-world. Releasing people because of their inability to do their job, compared to their average peers, is nearly impossible. Asshats in uniform keep offering these people contracts regardless of paperwork substantiating their inability to advance in their professional careers or meet the minimal requirements. Every unit probably has 1-2 people out of 100 that could be shown the door, but most CoCs just give up because all the paperwork justifying it doesn't go anywhere. I don't see how covid will make it easier to get rid of people for being incompetent or useless in their trade. This is an institutional problem where firing people for non disciplinary reasons is next to impossible.

 

[Remius]

I agree that there are people who can't do their jobs and would otherwise be fired from their trade in the real-world. Releasing people because of their inability to do their job, compared to their average peers, is nearly impossible. Asshats in uniform keep offering these people contracts regardless of paperwork substantiating their inability to advance in their professional careers or meet the minimal requirements. Every unit probably has 1-2 people out of 100 that could be shown the door, but most CoCs just give up because all the paperwork justifying it doesn't go anywhere. I don't see how covid will make it easier to get rid of people for being incompetent or useless in their trade. This is an institutional problem where firing people for non disciplinary reasons is next to impossible.

ironically we have 2 or three people being shown the door because of COVID that will be shown the door sooner as a result.

 

[Quirky]

ironically we have 2 or three people being shown the door because of COVID that will be shown the door sooner as a result.

Too bad we can't remove people this quickly for trade related reasons.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Too bad we can't remove people this quickly for trade related reasons.

The thing with admin measures is that you need to give people sufficient time to correct deficiencies. In the case of trades, this is measured in years in most cases. For COVID, the path was just shorter. Getting a vaccine doesn’t take years.

 

[Quirky]

The thing with admin measures is that you need to give people sufficient time to correct deficiencies. In the case of trades, this is measured in years in most cases. For COVID, the path was just shorter. Getting a vaccine doesn’t take years.

Years is unacceptable and giving someone that much time to figure out how to do their job is an indication of unfit for trade employment. Meanwhile the time spent mentoring this individual by qualified pers and money spent on salary and benefits could be used elsewhere. There needs to be limits on how long someone can get a grasp on their trade. Just because you join as a mechanic or pilot doesn’t mean you’ll be good enough to meet requirements. Taking years to become proficient in basic tasks is unacceptable.

The people that I know who are being kicked out for vaccine refusal do not fit that category of administrative burden and are great at their jobs. Meanwhile the guy who still needs supervision with a screwdriver 4 years post QL5 still keeps their job.

 

[Booter]

The MO stating that your position is absolutely wrong, actually came up when I asked why did I hear on the radio that morning, the host say "if we can get everyone jabbed then we can eliminate this thing" to which he said no medical professional believes that etc.

EXTRA! EXTRA! Doctor says guy on radio exaggerated or misunderstood what he was talking about! You heard it here first.

Then soldier asks doctor about how internet censorship works because he’s a medical officer and would have insight into that.

 

[brihard]

See the guy who I'm replying to above, he is so convinced of the lie that he's pretending to want to hear the MO say a simple true fact.


In reading more of the replies here, you people are..evil.
You seem to get a rise out of seeing your fellow soldiers lose their jobs and not qualify for EI, probably not get another job etc.
I thought Reddit was bad, but I see the keyboard warriors are here too.

When the military screws you over one day, your actions and rhetoric against your fellow brothers in arms will be rememebered.

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

So, no. You're making things up. You're fabricating, and are spouting nonsense that does not have a basis in fact. Nowhere has Jarnhamar claimed that the COVID vaccine will eliminate COVID completely. Nobody else on this site has either, ever that I've seen in the nearly two years of this pandemic. I won't even bother challenging you to show me where they did, because you can't. It's your own falsehood. What most of us believe, what public health experts have said, and what you appear incapable of grasping the nuance of, is that with enough people vaccinated, the public health and policy crisis over overloaded hospitals and ICUs can be eliminated- that is to say, COVID will still be here, but won't make enough people sufficiently ill that we need to limit society to protect hospitals.

What happened here is you winged in out of nowhere talking about having an audiorecording of a CAF Base Surgeon talking about COVID, and in a way that clearly you failed to properly grasp. Showing up out of nowhere to talk about recording a base surgeon will raise eyebrows from nearly anyone, and a few questions were asked. You took one such question as a challenge, and seem to think that because he asked about what circumstances led to you audio recording a medical officer, that he must somehow believe your imagined fantasy of 'believe a vaccine will eliminate COVID'. Then you went off on some rant.

Your posting history suggests you've been in a while. I have no idea if you're any good as a troop; I won't speculate. But what DOES seem to be the case, assuming I've correctly understood that you choose not to be vaccinated, is that you have deliberately made an informed choice that is not consistent with future CAF employment. You cannot get on a commercial aircraft to fly elsewhere for a tasking or course. You cannot enter most foreign countries. It's not a matter of you sucking at your job and needing retraining, but rather just choosing not to do your job- because being employable and deployable is part of your job, same as everyone else.

You are not a conscript. If you choose to place your own wants above the needs of CAF and Canada, that's fine, you're completely within your rights to do that- you just aren't entitled to a job. Your conditions of employment have changed in response to the biggest crises in decades, and you have decided you're no longer up to it. OK, cool. You're entitled to take your pension transfer value and find new pursuits elsewhere. If you've managed to actually find Reddit and army.ca in agreement on something though, and you find yourself surrounded by 'evil' assholes- maybe consider the common denominator.

On a personal note, I trusted Jarhamar with my life in Afghanistan, on one of his numerous tours, and I'm not the only one here who has. Several of us know what else he's done in his service. Don't think for a second that anyone with any credibility is questioning his dedication to his brothers and sisters in arms. He's got nothing to prove in that respect.

Have a great night.

 

[Bluebulldog]

You are not a conscript. If you choose to place your own wants above the needs of CAF and Canada, that's fine, you're completely within your rights to do that- you just aren't entitled to a job. Your conditions of employment have changed in response to the biggest crises in decades, and you have decided you're no longer up to it. OK, cool. You're entitled to take your pension transfer value and find new pursuits elsewhere.

Could that just be a formalized letter, and sent out to the remaining hold outs, both in the CAF and across the Federal Service?

Well said.

 

[Spencer100]

Down south. The agenda is starting to fall apart. The SC is starting the case. So it will be interesting.

Federal Judge Temporarily Blocks Navy Vaccine Mandate for 35 Challengers | National Review

‘The Navy servicemembers in this case seek to vindicate the very freedoms they have sacrificed so much to protect,’ the judge wrote.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[OldSolduer]

Could that just be a formalized letter, and sent out to the remaining hold outs, both in the CAF and across the Federal Service?

Well said.

For what its worth I concur with your opinion.

We entrust the lives of 30 soldiers to officers sometimes as young as 22 years old whose orders may put their lives at risk, yet the CDS cannot order you to get vaccinated.

To those of you who are fighting this, please release.

 

[dimsum]

We entrust the lives of 30 soldiers to officers sometimes as young as 22 years old whose orders may put their lives at risk

Similarly, not that long ago*, Naval Reserve officers could theoretically be qualified to become the Officer of the Watch on an MCDV at about 20 years old. MCDVs have up to 50 crew onboard.

* If they entered as RESO, so no requirement to finish their studies prior to phase training, and if they go through the courses one right after the other