All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

[brihard]

I wonder if this is related to this case.

Catherine Christensen – Law Society of Alberta

A self governing body, acting as a regulator, to set the standards for Alberta lawyers. Includes news, and services for lawyers and for the public.

www.lawsociety.ab.ca

I believe you’re right. Looks like she’s a relatively recent lawyer and specializes in assisting CAF members. She may have found herself a bit out of her depth on this.

 

[FJAG]

Pour yourself a drink and read the decision if you haven’t already. You’ll cringe. I wouldn’t want to be counsel for the applicants with my name on this ruling.

I read it when it cam out. I agree with you.

Sometimes after all of your advice the client says: "It's the principle of the thing." At that point I usually used go into a long discussion about what my fees will be and the consequences of having costs awarded against you (which they didn't in this case) and if they still want to go on principle I take a full retainer cause you just know that when you lose - like you predicted you would - they'll come after you.

 

[Bluebulldog]

Pour yourself a drink and read the decision if you haven’t already. You’ll cringe. I wouldn’t want to be counsel for the applicants with my name on this ruling.

Jebus. That was brutal.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The press is quick to say someone sued DND but very slow to say they lost their suit bigtime. I'm actually surprised it was reported at all. Haven't seen it anywhere else. Maybe now it will circulate.

Here in the National Post/Postmedia and The Canadian Press has a version out there as well for member outlets to share.

Last CBC.ca update: 15 Dec 2021 (they're in court, decision reserved)

 

[Gorgo]

Honestly, if people are SO stupid that they'd refuse a PROVEN vaccine to protect themselves from a deadly pandemic, the sooner they're out of the CF the better. Never mind the whole "refuse a superior officer's direct order" thing, we don't NEED that level of STUPIDITY in the military!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Honestly, if people are SO stupid that they'd refuse a PROVEN vaccine to protect themselves from a deadly pandemic, the sooner they're out of the CF the better. Never mind the whole "refuse a superior officer's direct order" thing, we don't NEED that level of STUPIDITY in the military!

Whoa whoa whoa........I think everyone should be vaxxed, but don't you be "SO stupid" to think that this vaccine is "PROVEN". We humans aren't that smart, years from now there could very well be side effects. For now I truly believe it's the right thing to do, but lets not run around talking that smugly and/or insulting.

Only time/history "proves" things.........[and that isn't even always correct]

 

[ModlrMike]

Short version:

I find that what is at stake for the Applicants here is not forcible vaccination but rather the consequences of one’s choice to remain unvaccinated.

 

[Bluebulldog]

years from now there could very well be side effects

Mefloquine anyone.....?

 

[brihard]

Short version:

I find that what is at stake for the Applicants here is not forcible vaccination but rather the consequences of one’s choice to remain unvaccinated.

Precisely this. And the court is saying there’s no irreparable harm here; any career consequences could ultimately be compensated with financial damages if it came to that.

 

[brihard]

With monthly allowances now, that's why you're getting an extra $327 to $822 per month (depending on how many months you've had in a field unit). Chapter 205- Allowances for officers and non-commissioned members - Canada.ca

Though no allowance can give you time with family.

 

[OceanBonfire]

Only after the court made it's move:

O'Toole says all CAF members should be vaxxed, after court rejects vaccine mandate challenge

Conservative Leader Erin O'Toole said he believes all those in uniform should be vaccinated against COVID-19, after the Federal Court rejected a request by some military members for exemption from a vaccine mandate order.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[MilEME09]

Over 900 unvaccinated members of CAF to face formal proceedings - National | Globalnews.ca

Defence Department spokesman Daniel Le Bouthillier says reviews had been launched against 100 Armed Forces members by the end of December for repeatedly refusing to get their jabs.

globalnews.ca

Related

 

[PuckChaser]

Anecdotally I've heard of a few people who were denied VRs because their trades were under strength, so they just refused the vaccine, took the release when offered and then promptly went to a civilian clinic to get vaccinated. I dont think this is gonna turn out how the CAF thinks it is.

 

[brihard]

Over 900 unvaccinated members of CAF to face formal proceedings - National | Globalnews.ca

Defence Department spokesman Daniel Le Bouthillier says reviews had been launched against 100 Armed Forces members by the end of December for repeatedly refusing to get their jabs.

globalnews.ca

Related

Kinda sloppy writing. Does that mean 100/900 who were into remedial measures went to the point of C&P? Clearly the author didn’t do the necessary background research to understand the remedial measures system. It makes it sound like the troops in question were required to attempt counselling, and placed on probation, due to a bit of a botch job in how C&P is described.

If they’re relying on Catherine Christensen for their lawsuit, that may not go well. She’s one of the counsel whose arguments just got ripped apart in the injunction application that was rejected in Neri.

 

[Quirky]

Anecdotally I've heard of a few people who were denied VRs because their trades were under strength, so they just refused the vaccine, took the release when offered and then promptly went to a civilian clinic to get vaccinated. I dont think this is gonna turn out how the CAF thinks it is.

That's brilliant. Just goes to show that 6 months waiting to release under normal circumstances is utter crap.

 

[Furniture]

That's brilliant. Just goes to show that 6 months waiting to release under normal circumstances is utter crap.

Sure, let the troops put in two weeks notice, so long as the CAF can boot problem children with two weeks notice as well.

From what I have heard, none of the folks refusing the vaccines are any loss to the CAF. It's does serve as a great "out" for those who's pride wouldn't allow them to release when it became apparent the CAF wasn't the right place for them.

 

[brihard]

That's brilliant. Just goes to show that 6 months waiting to release under normal circumstances is utter crap.

Agreed. If they want out, let them out. There will be short term stings at times, but people who don’t want to be there are a liability.

 

[grayzone]

For context: a misplaced military immunization booklet caused me an entire: A-Z re-vaccination, just to avoid DAG'ing delays ten years ago.

My reaction to this is I find it ...unfathomable

On the other hand, if these were Mefloquine Mass Tort Action Class Members, I could possibly understand a certain reluctance...

 

[Blackadder1916]

Anecdotally I've heard of a few people who were denied VRs because their trades were under strength, so they just refused the vaccine, took the release when offered and then promptly went to a civilian clinic to get vaccinated. I dont think this is gonna turn out how the CAF thinks it is.

Did any of those released have a remaining period of obligatory service? Could possibly be a "novel" (pun intended) approach to getting out early without fully paying back expensive education or training. Do any guidelines for this policy include mention of those on a term of obligatory service?

 

[PuckChaser]

Not that I had heard but that's an interesting point to consider. There's an even better twist, someone not being allowed to release could get vaccinated and refuse to attest to their status and be offered a VR. Truly a gongshow.