FJAG
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jollyjacktar said:While the message of hate and intolerance being displayed by the white supremacy groups in NC is wrong and distasteful, what happened cannot be totally laid at their feet. As the saying goes, "it takes two to Tango", there were those there on the opposite side of the coin who assisted in accelerating crap going south swiftly. . . . There might not be equality in blame between the two, but one of those sides shouldn't get a complete pass in complicity. That isn't right or proper either.
EpicBeardedMan said:I also have no problem condemning the alt-right, but people on the left haven't condemned BLM or "Antifa" so, you get what you give in my opinion...
You're not always right when you say that when it comes to violence that it takes two to tango - sometimes all it takes is one side - but in this case I think you were absolutely right. I'm not for one minute supporting or defending Antifa activists. My take on it is that one side was completely made up of white supremacists, neo Nazis and KKK and their sympathizers who were there to spout hate while the other side was made up of counterprotestors who were there to voice their opposition. Some of those, but not all, were Antifa. Both sides came ready for the violence that followed and which, in my mind, was inevitable.
jollyjacktar said:. . . If the protestors had of had their say and day to weep, wail and stamp their feet without being goaded further, maybe we wouldn't have this thread going on. . .
We probably would have had a different but no less vigorous debate about how white supremacists, neo nazis and the KKK are now able to spout their hate in public without being challenged in the US
jollyjacktar said:Lastly, as a child of a man who went through Italy, France and Holland against "real" Nazi and Fascists I'm pretty sure the skinhead dickbags and sheet wearing ****s of the KKK don't rate that status or that I'd fail to recognize that. The Reich is the major leagues these amateurs will never pay in. If it comes to pass, I expect it will look and be much different.
EpicBeardedMan said:The idea that you think a tiny fraction of the world's population could rise up and erect another Nazi Party (Again) is shocking. When do you think white supremacists will come into power and can you source what politicians you feel would turn Canada or America in general into another Nazi Party?
My grandfather was a conscripted European and my other grandfather fought for Canada, I have heard stories from both and the wieners of 2017 who call themselves Nazis or "Anti-fascists" are a joke. The real anti-fascists stormed the beaches on D-Day, they didn't pepper spray elderly people, beat people with poles, damage personal property, and ironically, stop free speech (Berkeley was an eye-opener for most).
I disagree. Extremism can easily grow when the circumstances are right and when the general population does not take a stand.
I know that there will be screams of outrage over what I say but take a look at the Trump situation. Not that I think that he's a Nazi, but that the majority of the world and the US (and even the Republican Party) thought that he was a joke who had zero chance of being elected. Yet he won. It is all too easy to underestimate an opponent and to write him off as a joke. Hitler himself was thought of this way by many even though there were clear signs of the direction he would go in his early writings.
The threat isn't so much that a given country turns into a Nazi regime with swastikas and the SS but that they will turn into an authoritarian regime with a nationalistic bend to it. That's really what's at the heart of fascism "radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce"
There are many democratic countries that are showing signs of these trends.
Look at Duterte in the Philippines. The man was taken as a fool but nonetheless elected by his country and is now running a program of extrajudicial murder of people suspected in the drug trade.
Or Erdogan in Turkey. Elected and recently given a mandate by his people to change the system of government from a primarily parliamentary system to a presidential one that lets him rule much by decree.
Russia under Putin.
Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro (yes I know it's supposedly socialist)
For an overview of where the world stands look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
EpicBeardedMan said:Also, I never said playful activity - you said that - but since you brought it up can you source anything in the past couple years that involves mass genocide, global war, lynchings, bombings, etc that makes these people a threat other than having to listen to their moronic chants while carrying tiki torches from your local hardware store? It seems to me that these people are a nuisance who comprise a tiny percentage of the population that talk the talk but don't do anything, much like the Westboro Baptist Church. They survive and thrive off the attention that people give them, and the funny thing is that the left doesnt even realize they're helping their cause by calling everyone you disagree with on the right a Nazi.
You can't allow this type of rabble to go unchallenged. That's exactly how things did start in Germany. You may recall that there was revolution and massive unrest and unemployment in post World War 1 Germany with numerous parties (both left and right wing) Hitler's rise started as part of the big lie that Germany lost the war because it was stabbed in the back and as the situations were desperate people started more and more buying into the nationalist rhetoric coming from Hitler and his ilk. He didn't start with mass genocides or global war. He started out with a modest following rooted in anti-communism and nationalism that snowballed.
You're right when you say that they thrive on the attention they are given but with today's media that's not a problem at all. Just think about how much more they would thrive if they were seen to have no opposition and in fact to have the President's tacit support.
Sorry guys. These folks may have been a joke a dozen years ago. No longer.
[cheers]