All Things Combat Diver (merged)

[Sapper6]

Forgot the significant contribution of combat divers on Op PERSEVERANCE (?) which was the support to Swiss Air Flt #111 crash off of Peggy's Cove.  Clearance Divers did all the deep stuff and the combat divers tended to the difficult recovery task along the shoreline.  Still - this was a domestic operation and although significant, wasn't war fighting type stuff.

Bubbles up!

 

[Sapper6]

Agree with EOD/Combatdiver....and, will add that - giving a P Res soldier the qualification makes little sense as it will be highly unlikely they would be able to keep their skill set up to snuff.  Seems like a lot of money spent on trg with very little return.

Although, I heard something about 31 CER (The Elgins) when John Hampson was the DCO, that he managed to get some CABA gear...anyone know if that was true?  Is the unit still diving today?

Bubbles up!

 

[McG]

Hampson did run a 31 CER dive prelim with an RSS Cpl (now a Sgt at CFSME).  One reservist was course loaded for Cbt Diver and popped his shoulder out a week before the course.  That is the closest I've ever heard of a reservist comming to getting the course.  I believe the unit was still getting "re-roll money" for training at that time, so the cost of sending a guy on that course would have been much less of an impact on the unit than it would today. 

I don't know if the unit actually ever did any diving . . . but apparently Hampson is back so even if it was not done before . . .

 

[Spr.Earl]

What do you think of that EOD/Combat Diver? Any rentals get the Dive Course in 2 CER lately?

Diver yes,EOD courses are a impossibility right now as certain EOD courses Rentals can't get.

 

[eod/combatdiver]

Combat Diver courses and some EOD courses are not part of the role of some reserve units. Hell the CER's have a hard time keeping up with all of the BTS's and we have a larger support net then 31 CER may have. Its not that the reg force wants to keep these things from the reserve units it all comes down to safety.  Especially when you are dealing with life support equipment. To date the combat divers have not had a singal death due to equipment or troops not being qualified unlike the navy's record.  That's not the clearance divers they are very professional about what they do. They run into trouble with ships divers and port inspection divers.  EOD work is the same not a single Canadian  EOD operator has died doing an EOD problem we have lost EOD operators due to mine strikes but not to operators error.  That is why I think one of the many reasons that certain course are not offered to the reserve units What reserve CO has enough confidence in his NCO's and troops to sign off on paper saying that his troops are operationally ready to take on the combat diving role. One death everyone is going up on the mat ultimately the CO is responsible even if he is not qualified.

Bubbles up!!!

 

[Sapper6]

Diver 409,

The answer is "length of his arm plus the length of his dive knife!"

DIVE ARMY!

 

[Diver409]

Big time #237...at least until that fictitious day arrives when we are allotted under water weaponry eh?  ~~PFFT~~

 

[Slim]

Actually I did know one (repeat one) armoured type who is/was a qualified combat diver. He was a sgt in Gagetown at the school when I met him. I believe that his paret unit is the RCD'S. He wore the Cbt Diver qualification on his uniform.

Mind you this is going back about 10 years now...

Slim

 

[Diver409]

I have little doubt this person exists...and when/if the day comes when I decide to leave my beloved core ...I will also be one who wears the badge in whatever trade I decide to belong to.   The point is, there is no doubt that he first had to attain the qualification as a reg force combat engineer.   The only two ways that I am aware of to become a certified/qualified combat diver are; 1)You must   :skull: survive :skull: the two week preliminary course and prove to the powers that be that you are not only worthy but ready to take the 10 week combat divers course, and 2)You must be a qualified ships team diver and take the necessary under water demolitions training and recce instructionals that will allow you to evolve from the lowest level of military divers.   I do not have the time in the logistical portions of the diving world to quote scripture on this topic, but the conversation has been discussed at length on many occasions down at dive stores.   I'm sure my fellow divers who do have more knowledge on this topic will step up to add to this if I am off a little...so watch and shoot   :gunner:.

 

[eod/combatdiver]

Was his name SgT Albertson?

mike

 

[Diver409]

Actually Mike, I had a sidebar conversation with Slim and it seems he may have mistaken the STD (ships team diver) badge for ours.  He said that the Sgt's name was Aymar...(hope I'm remembering that correctly).  S'all good...common mistake.

 

[Sapper6]

I agree with 409, don't know of anyone who wasn't a combat engineer first who is a combat diver now.  There's always a few "characters" at 3 PPCLI who try to load themselves on the course every year, only to get unceremoniously dropped once FDU(P), and now CADC, calls the Bde HQ and tells them the course is not for them.  So, they end up taking the STD course instead.  Why? I really don't know?  If it is to develop combat swimmers for the Recce Pls....great....but they will be a little hard up once they figure out that the FDUs are not issuing wet suits anymore.  Chimo!

Bubbles Up!

 

[Slim]

I believe I saw in an earlier comment in this thread that the engineer CBT Divers (for the most part) do engineering tasks, with some sneaky-pete stuff thrown in...

Would the engineer trade object to evolving the role of the Combat diver to include more of a SEAL/SBS application?

What are everyone's thoughts?

Slim

 

[Diver409]

You would not believe how easy the transformation would/could be.  Just like all training in the CF we train for war.  We train as often as we can for the unlikely situation that the CF may employ us in a hostile enviornment.  In that, a situation may arise that the combat divers may have to insert & extract themselves from that enviornment...and deal with hostiles to accomplish that task.  Under this premise is how we attempt to train on a regular basis.  As engineers it does not make us happy to have to build bridges, breach minefields, disable booby traps (or any other of the taxing problems we encounter) in the dark and wearing camo paint while thinking about being shot.  We train under those conditions that the likelyhood of us having to do anything under less stress...is easier and we are more proficient and confident for that training.  Now put that trianing into the watery enviornment.  Slim, we do train as if we were in those enviornments because everything else is easier.  You want to know if the engineer trade would object?  Ask the trade leaders.  You want to know if the divers could step up?  Give us the proper equipment...and the chance...

 

[Sapper6]

409- well said.   Whether we will ever get called to do the deeds our government orders will remain to be seen.   However, as professional soldiers we need to be ready to take on combat tasks.... we are the insurance.   Regretfully we don't have the resources ($ and eqpt) to do more.

Slim - in my humble opinion - our combat divers could match the skill level of SEAL/SBS teams task for task given the resources and a will to succeed.

237

 

[Slim]

Hey Gents

From the little that I know about the cbt diving trade, and stuff that I've heard from those involved in it I have gotten that impression before.

Canadians tend to be very good at what they do in any military enviorment that we're put in. Be it air, land or sea element. It would not surprise me in the least to leanr that, with a few equipment upgrades and some expansion of training on the part of the trade that this would be very quickly possible.

Would the trade need to expand in order to take on those sorts of taskings? How coud it be done and what sort of training would then be required to reach that level. (feel free to PM if you don't want to answer in the open forums)

Cheers gents

Slim

 

[Diver409]

Mike or 237, either of you want to field this?   You both have far more experience in this field than I do and I'm not sure that I'm qualified to answer this with only a handful of operational dives and a couple of RB's under my belt, regardless of TI and quality of training.   I know what I'd like to think are the facts, but I hate waving the flag in the face of veterans if I'm off a bit.   It has all been discussed before within the confines of many an RB and post dive...but I'd rather wait for others of your tenure to give me 'the nod' before I chip in.

 

[Spr.Earl]

I know of one who went through the back Door and was denied the course just because of the way he did it and it was not needed per the Unit he was with but other wise he would have gotten then course.
It's not that we rentals can't do it,it's do we need the course?
But what I do get angry with is the narrow minded comments about us Rentals.

Before you all jump on my back,I have forgotten more than what most of you have learnt.
I first joined in 76 in the Wack with 3Fd Sqn,I think I'm the only Rental Sapper here who can say He served  with 3 FD Sqn,never mind Reg., Kat you serve with 3Fd.Sqn.?

As to E.O.D. in regards to Rentals pm me.

 

[SprCForr]

It was 1 CER by the time me and Kat got there.

 

[Ranger12]

Hello any combat divers on here who would like to talk on msn i got lots of stuff to ask and stuff. im 15 trying to find a career  in the forces? thanks chris