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All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

Ah yes, Trudeau and his Indian White papers, changed to ironically the Red Book by our old friend Jean.  You know, it's interesting that in 1967, the G&M asked the same questions that are being asked by a few people here (talk about not researching before asking!) They quoted a government official on Oct 21, 1967 as follows:  

"As a rule the economic development programs that the Branch supports are the marginal, low-profit enterprises like freshwater fish cooperatives. They’re useful, but it was my experience that whenever anyone proposed that the Indians themselves run some larger enterprise — such as building their own resort community instead of leasing to a developer, or organizing a company to exploit their own oil and gas resources — the idea was dismissed, because of fear that established companies would put on pressures against so-called unfair competition from the Indians, backed by the government.

"Indian band capital funds totaling $30 million are on deposit in Ottawa. Oil and gas alone on Indian reserves is estimated to total $2 billion.

"How is it that such rich people are so poor? Why can’t Crown corporations or commercial corporations be set up, primarily under Indian control but with expert outside help, to exploit these resources? Why can’t the Indians hire their own management talent?"

And again in the 60s, the most comprehensive study on the socio-economic conditions of First Nations found in 1967:
The vast majority of Native Indian people suffer incredible, soul-breaking poverty. The government’s Hawthorn-Tremblay study, published in 1967, found that of a sample survey of over 22,000 families in Indian communities across Canada, 74 percent made less than $2,000 in 1964; 47 percent made less than $1,000 a year. (Remember, those are family incomes.) Over half the Indian population is chronically unemployed: the survey reported that 61 percent of the workers held jobs less than 6 months per year; 23.6 percent for less than two months. The Indian unemployment rate is 10 times the national average.

As a result, more than one-third of the households in the Hawthorn-Tremblay survey depended for their livelihood on meager welfare grants from the Indian Affairs Branch — and this figure doesn’t account for the large number of bands providing their own welfare funds. The federal government allots about 25 percent of its Indian Affairs budget to welfare payments, as against the 10 percent it devotes to "economic development" on the reserves.

Most government services are either non-existent or of scandalously poor quality. Total spending of the Indian Affairs Department averages out to $530 per treaty Indian, a year (1967) ; whereas the federal government spends $740 a year on the average non-Indian Canadian, not to speak of the provincial and municipal government services (e.g. education, health, agriculture, roads, etc.) which our quarter-million treaty Indians do not have access to.

Nine out of 10 Indian homes on reserves have no indoor toilets; barely half have electricity; nearly 60 percent live in houses of three rooms or less.

It is estimated that more than 30 percent of the inmates in Canada’s jails and training schools are Indian, although Indians account for less than three percent of the total population. The number of Indians in federal penitentiaries has increased five-fold since 1950 to more than 2,500.

While the average Canadian can expect to live to the age of 62, the Indians’ life expectancy is only 33 for men, 34 for women. The mortality rate among Indians increased by eight percent between 1965 and 1968 alone. The mortality rate among Indian pre-school children is eight times the national average.

Yet Indians are the fastest growing ethnic group in Canada, with an annual population increase of five percent. Half the Indian population is under the age of 16, close to twice the proportion among non-Indians.

This phenomenal population increase, combined with rapidly declining job opportunities for Indian workers — half of whom are engaged in relatively traditional and marginal economic activities like fishing, trapping, hunting, and agriculture — means a tremendous pressure on the Indians to leave the reserves and head for the cities in search of work.

In Manitoba, for example, about half of the province’s 80,000 Indians and 30,000 Métis are now subsisting in substandard conditions in Winnipeg; 10,000 have migrated to the city during the last 10 years, most of them in the last three years. But in the cities, the employment prospect is scarcely better than on the reserves. Only three percent of Winnipeg’s inhabitants, the Indians and Métis account for 12 percent of its welfare cases.

And let's not forget Trudeau's plan for "Indians" in the 60s as well:

the Indians must assimilate. They must, as Prime Minister Trudeau put it recently, "become Canadians as all other Canadians." His government’s aptly named "white paper", which projects the outright abolition of Indian treaty rights within five years, spells this out in more detail. At the same time, this society every day reveals how unwilling and unable it is to "assimilate" the Indians. Even when destroyed as a people, they are completely rejected as individuals, the unemployed, underpaid victims of racism.

The essence of the white paper is the proposal to remove Indian lands from the protection against alienation now contained in the Indian Act provisions. Not only does this close the door to attempts to encourage economic development of the reserves, it is the prelude to a massive land grab of these six million acres, much of it choice land near the cities, by real estate speculators and industrial consortiums.

From: http://www.socialisthistory.ca/Docs/1961-/Red%20Power/Red_Power_1970.htm

Then we can move right along to the 90s and review the RCAP findings - all 9 volumes of them.

http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ch/rcap/index_e.html

And ZC, if you still require more substantive literature, go read the numerous commissions on FN child welfare, housing, incarceration, criminal justice system, wrongly convicted, residential schools, environmental and health risks.  

Then if you still think you have the answers to the problem, fire them away to the PMO, I'm sure he and his INAC Minister would be happy to take them under advisement.  

 















 
niner domestic said:
...
And ZC, if you still require more substantive literature, go read the numerous commissions on FN child welfare, housing, incarceration, criminal justice system, wrongly convicted, residential schools, environmental and health risks. 

Then if you still think you have the answers to the problem, fire them away to the PMO, I'm sure he and his INAC Minister would be happy to take them under advisement. 

Nice diatribe.

Didn't answer ZC's question, however.
 
Then perhaps Roy you'd like to answer his query about needing an income.  I was addressing post number 120.   
 
Roy Harding said:
Nice diatribe.

Didn't answer ZC's question, however.

Agreed.  I see a lot of place settings at the pity party, and precious few solutions being offered.  And if you want me to agree that Trudeau was a dick, I am already there. 
 
niner domestic said:
Then perhaps Roy you'd like to answer his query about needing an income.  I was addressing post number 120.   

Fair enough (although that fact wasn't apparent in your previously mentioned diatribe).

I'm headed for bed, and therefore won't respond tonight.

Wait, out
 
One of the factors which crushes native people living on the reservation is that in many cases our concepts of accountability, rule of law etc. end at the front gate. I'm sure we have all heard of the horror stories of chiefs and their circle of cronies living the high life, and maintaining power by dispensing perques like housing, jobs and welfare cheques to their friends and supporters. In many ways this resembles the situation in third world nations like Haiti rather than what we expect in Canada.

Of course, pointing this out, or suggesting that "we" as the donors of this money should be able to hold bands accountable usually results in cries of racism rather than an RCMP investigation resulting in jail time for the miscreants.

Suggesting that "third levels" of government, or calling bands "Nations" really are non starters as far as being effective solutions. Native people are people first and foremost, and will behave the same way you or I would under similar circumstances. The only way to bring these people out of poverty to enjoy the wealth and privileges that we have is to drop the notion that they are somehow different from other Canadians. Reservations should be converted to townships, counties or municipalities depending on their local circumstances, and band councils brough under the control of the local equivalent of the Municipal Act of their respective provinces. I can personally attest to the efficiency of this, while doing driver training in Alberta back in the 1980's we often drove down roads with "third world" reservations on one side and really nice farms and ranches on the other side. In many cases the owners of these farms and ranches were natives who left the reservation behind (and notice the key word: "owned"), since they were now living and interacting in the world of free markets and Rule of Law they learned and acted on the same sets of behaviours and assumptions that we do, and were successful in doing so.

Yes the transition will be tough, but millions of immigrants came to Canada with only a few dollars in their pockets, poor command of the language and invalid qualifications (i.e. education not recognized in Canada), yet still thrived and prospered, indeed people still do so today from China and India, so this is not impossible.
 
Majoor

On face value... that sounds simple  yet effective. 

However the underlying principle is what Trudeau said..  assimilate.


How can we ensure their culture/heritage stays live if we ask them to assimilate
to into a city.  Non natives could move into this city like any other city which I'm
sure won't go over very well.  I have a few other thoughts of how this wouldn't
go well... I just can't find the proper terms to express them.

I'm not shooting the idea down.  Like you said, it would be difficult for them to adapt.
Is there a way to allow them become a city and not lose their heritage, cultures, values
because like I said this could be interpreted as assimilate.
 
Trinity said:
How can we ensure their culture/heritage stays live if we ask them to assimilate
to into a city.  Non natives could move into this city like any other city which I'm
sure won't go over very well.  I have a few other thoughts of how this wouldn't
go well... I just can't find the proper terms to express them.
They would guarantee their culture/heritage the same way that Italians, Chinese, African and other groups have maintained theirs, all without BigBrother State ensuring that it did.  A collection of personal and collective pride would do it.  If they don't have the personal or collective pride to maintain their culture, then it wasn't worth that much to them.
 
Yes the transition will be tough, but millions of immigrants came to Canada with only a few dollars in their pockets, poor command of the language and invalid qualifications (i.e. education not recognized in Canada), yet still thrived and prospered, indeed people still do so today from China and India, so this is not impossible.


I agree. You have some good points.  However, Aboriginals feel like this in their home country. And why is it the same deal in other countries where there has also been colonization? And why is the suicide rate so high among the indigenous people all over the world?
 
Reserves.

Sorry Miss Jacqueline I don't mean to be trite.

I understand how serious the problem is, but I can't help but think we expose aboriginals to all the trappings of modern society and then stick them on some piece of 'skeg and say "here's home, you're special, cheque's in the mail, now bugger off".

However, Urban Reserves.... now there's an idea (IMHO)...


 
Yes, and that is what needs to be changed. The problem is getting the idea across.
 
Miss Jacqueline said:
I agree. You have some good points.  However, Aboriginals feel like this in their home country. And why is it the same deal in other countries where there has also been colonization? And why is the suicide rate so high among the indigenous people all over the world?

Perception is reality.  IMO it is worse to jam a bunch of bummed out characters into an isolated compound (reserve) to tell each other over and over how bad they have it.  I will stand to be corrected, but from what has been being said the most successful natives are the ones who leave the Res and get with the business of living.  
As for the suicide thing, why do you keep harping on it?  If people are hopeless, how is throwing money at them going to help?  And if the money is thrown en masse at one guy that has the ultimate say in who gets it or not, how is that helping a community?  The suicide issue is a "you" problem.  Only the native community can fix it.
 
Throwing money doesn't solve the problem, neither does forced assimilation.  Some of the 'solutions' you guys are throwing out have been proven ineffective, if not dramatically harmful, time and time again. 

What is working, on a case by case basis, is long term economic development coupled with increased self-governance rights.  Good governance and economic development, on our terms.  Sounds rational to me. 
 
As for mass relocation of Aboriginal people to urban centres?  What would then happend to Canadian claims of sovereignty over the vast stretches of uninhabited land in the north?  Even from a purely national interest / national defense perspective it makes sense to me to have people living all over Canada, even in remote areas.  If we don't, someone else will.



 
There lies the fundamental difference between what the non-native tries to understand and fails to do and what the FN knows and accepts.  Non-natives can only use their experiences of immigration, global movement, colonization and conquering to establish parameters of what is "best for the redman."  The solution is always the same, pick a century, decade, or moment and it only repeats itself - "move the Indian and all will be well. Make them the same as us and we won't have to deal with otherness, only sameness.  We did it, we survived, we conquered we inflicted our values onto the indigenous population". - I hear the non-native say- same old, same old. First Nations never left, we never ran, we didn't enmasse leave the country of our ancestors for better places as we love the land of our ancestors.  We stayed. Even when our very existence was threatened, we stayed.  Non-native people don't get that.  They don't get there is no solution - we don't need a solution, we never left in all the attempts to by non-natives to assimilate, criminalize, separate, dehumanize and segregate us from our land.  You won't be seeing a mass exodus of Indians leaving the continent, or our lands so your solutions won't work because they require us to find something more important to us than the land. In 10,000 years not much as compelled us to leave, the land is what holds us.  Until the non-natives come to understand that, there will always be a difference.    


Cpl Caldwell, You want an Urban reserve? Look no further than Toronto and Los Angeles.  LA is the biggest urban rez in North American and TO is second with an off reserve population of over 50,000. 
 
Just for the record, and I do not think I am being accused of it, but just for the record....

I am not advocating mass relocation.

I am saying that without re-inventing the whole paradigm (which probably needs to be done...but whatever)..

Just to float an idea here... could the landclaims process not be a titch more productive if, say, we said, "Okay, all you Williams Treaty guys, we'll cede you Downsview Base as a Reserve, (we'd really like to see accountable government as a 'quid pro quo', by the way) this way you can stay "Indian" and partake in our society....."

This way people could migrate, not be relocated, as they see fit....

Folks who want to live off 'Res' in Tronna are still welcome to do so...

Now I understand your statement on Tronna and LA, but I would submit, even based to some degree on your arguments, that one of the plights of the urban native is, separated from his (sic) society, criminalized or discriminated against by the whites, the aborginal ends up in a really bad spot. I think I am saying an urban reserve gives you (again sic)  your land, your culture, and the other things important to a peer-group society and allows aboriginals the chance to participate in the economy .


Has not the new urban reserve in Saskatoon gone some way to validating such a hypothesis?


<Edit, Treaty Six is wrong, my bad, I'll go with the easiest reference, changed to Williams Treaty, sorry...>
<Edit: the new urban reserve is in Saskatoon, not Edmonton, once again ,, my UpperCanadian mind is challenged by Western Geography>
 
niner domestic said:
In 10,000 years not much as compelled us to leave, the land is what holds us.  Until the non-natives come to understand that, there will always be a difference.    

Then quit complaining. 

History and tradition are all well and good, but reality is judged in the here and now.  I have a glorious Scottish tradition that I can speak to, but my family didn't raise me to believe that when our clan got dicked over by the British 500-odd years ago that it was a reason to pin all my personal shortcomings on. 
Hold on to your past, but only the good parts.  If you want to make things better, come up with a plan and execute it.  I will be the last person to tell anyone to get off of their Reservation and I agree that forcing people into urban centers is not a great plan.  But why not un-designate the reserve and make it a municipality like the rest of everywhere.  Whoever is there currently gets to own their property and simply gets with the program.  Doubtless there would be concessions for hunting and fishing, but if infrastructure and community organization is the biggest challenge, why not become part of a system that is proven to work?  You need not fear anyone else will be running things ie) whites, since the only people who actually live in the municipality would already be all native.  Getting a native mayor or native city counsel would be a pretty simple task. 
Make all the excuses you want to.  Blame anyone and everyone.  It's your gig to run, but if you don't like how things are going you may want to try to think out of the box (or circle as it were).
Good luck.
 
UberCree said:
Throwing money doesn't solve the problem, neither does forced assimilation.  Some of the 'solutions' you guys are throwing out have been proven ineffective, if not dramatically harmful, time and time again. 
I disagree.  Look at A_Majoor's post again.  Immigrants who were DIRT poor, couldn't speak english and weren't even qualified to drive a bicycle have made it here.  How?  By pulling up their socks and getting on with it, not by complaining that the White Man is to blame for all their woes.

On the other hand, reverting to early 20th Century methods of carting off natives to cities, forcing them to abandon their culture, etc is definately not the way to go.

Of course native culture is important.  But, in reality, if they want to live life as it was prior to the White Man coming over, then fine, do it.  Just don't ask me for handouts.
 
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