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Hopefully we don’t get only a vapid “They’re asking more than we can give!” from the PM.
All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)
- Thread starter UberCree
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Yes, I am well aware the Beaverton is a satire site.
I am commenting on the chatter class quietly cheering on church arsonists “because the Catholic Church is a bunch of assholes”. Even the local band councils affected are decrying and condemning arson.
When 9-11 happened, western governments everywhere made a special point of telling citizens not to blame all muslims and every single incidence of mosque vandalism was loudly decried by every elected official from dogcatcher to head of state.
Do people even realize that these small band churches getting burned aren’t owned by Vatican? They were built, paid for and maintained by the band members themselves, including the ones today who no longer have use of these buildings. So who is suffering as a result of these fires? The Vatican? Think again.
If these local parishes want to disband their churches in protest of the larger Catholic (or Anglican) church, let them make that decision. They don’t need others burning them down for them.
Oh, in case anyone thinks that I am defending Residential Schools, I am not nor ever will. I just do not see how group punishing people today who had nothing to do with events of the past will solve anything or contribute to reconciliation.
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OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Archives are the true history of any institution. Pretty much every organization has archives of some sort, so there is an extremely good chance that there are files somewhere.
Yup, probably. But I think our government owes it to the victims and to the rest of the country- get to the truth, however it should play out. Canadians deserve to have this investigated in as fulsome a manner as it can be, so that hopefully actual reconciliation can be pursued and this ugly crap consigned to the history books.
There was TB, and a host of other diseases that affected the children that they had not been exposed to the before. The federal government refused to pay to have the bodies returned to the tribe, they told the schools to just bury them and inform the parents
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Maybe I missed it, but where is the PM's message decrying the destruction of churches?
If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted, we'd have seen multiple federal government ministers telling us to not judge all (insert X) by the actions of those in the past. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but to me it looks like the government is not saying anything, so the Catholic church can bear the brunt of the anger.
The graves need to be found, and properly marked. Anyone from the system alive today needs to be brought to justice if they committed criminal acts in the past. Anyone caught committing crimes today, because of crimes in the past also needs to be brought to justice.
If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted, we'd have seen multiple federal government ministers telling us to not judge all (insert X) by the actions of those in the past. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but to me it looks like the government is not saying anything, so the Catholic church can bear the brunt of the anger.
The graves need to be found, and properly marked. Anyone from the system alive today needs to be brought to justice if they committed criminal acts in the past. Anyone caught committing crimes today, because of crimes in the past also needs to be brought to justice.
Pelorus
Full Member
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Burning churches is 'unacceptable' way to respond to unmarked Indigenous graves: Trudeau
This morning, a historic Catholic church in Alberta was destroyed by fire and a Catholic church at a First Nation in Nova Scotia was damaged by flames
nationalpost.com
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If this was any religious place other than churches burning we would also be calling them hate crimes of epidemic proportions.
Quirky
Army.ca Veteran
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No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN. Has there ever been an interaction between Canada and FN in general where compensation of some type for some reason hasn’t been the primary topic of conversation? I see it as a difference of opinion, because to me saying “it’s not about money” is a stance that is either naive or intentionally misleading.
Welcome to Canada, where you must pay for the sins of your ancestors and you're responsible for the sins of other peoples' ancestors. Even if you immigrated to Canada, or your parents did, you are still responsible.
There is no clear indication which children died from unnatural causes vs natural, figuring out how to even charge a case with almost no evidence and hoping that any of the staff (who would be in their 80’s) might stay alive long enough to see a court room. Seeking justice is going to be a nearly impossible and too costly of a task at this point. Investigating 30+ year old cold cases is about as terrible of a societal return of investment as it gets. Opening up old wounds that were buried for decades is only going enrage more people and more buildings will be burn down. We are on this path now anyway, it's only going to get worse and drive more hatred.
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I only partly agree with you here.
What I think makes it difficult is that there's such a wide range of ideas re: what "reconciliation" means, both to individuals and to communities on both sides of the issue.
Some said "paying them out" would be a good solution, while others thought this same solution was sometimes (often?) better for the lawyers than the recipients.
Others point to the fact that while this compensates people who've been through the system or affected by the fate of those who've been there, there was still the outstanding question of, "what about those who didn't come back - especially those that nobody was told about?" (BTW, they've been collecting info on those who nobody knows what happened to on an ongoing basis since 2015).
Some extremes at both ends of the spectrum can sometimes be so shrill as to drown out all the less-extreme options/opinions in between.
Others smarter than me on social media said that this took a long time to happen and understand (with the understanding still unfolding), so it'll take a long time to figure out what reconciliation means and how to "do" it.
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TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…
Absolutely.
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I'm not about cancelling Canada, or self-flagellation for the sins of the father, but having a read of the 93 recommendations doesn't hurt.
TRC Website - NCTR
TRC Website Archive The Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) website has been archived using the Wayback Machine software. You can view the archived version by clicking here. The Wayback Machine is an archive system for websites. The archived TRC website will work like a normal website...
trc.ca
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This one stuck out to me. Seems like this might be a bit of a loaded issue.
Another is the call for access to Aboriginal traditional healing, I believe in hospitals, if someone requests it.
Our health care system is struggling. Not enough doctors, nurses, PSWs and so on. Every hospital in Canada offering Aboriginal traditional healing (which in itself is a broad term with many different healing traditions within the different belief systems of 630 nations) seems tricky.
Actioning all of the recommendations in the TRC seems like it would be an astronomical cost.
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Yes. I read through them. Some are already in place.
I have no doubt that all are made with the best intent. Some I think may be unrealistically unachievable, and I suspect that some of the calls related to funding are simply indicators of larger cracks in social funding across Canada.
Finally, I'm not sure I agree with a few of them, but would have to read more to understand the context.
It's interesting to see the various reports of how we're doing as a country. Some reports are that the process is stalled, and that we're not doing enough in Canada. But it appears Canada is trying.
I have no doubt that all are made with the best intent. Some I think may be unrealistically unachievable, and I suspect that some of the calls related to funding are simply indicators of larger cracks in social funding across Canada.
Finally, I'm not sure I agree with a few of them, but would have to read more to understand the context.
It's interesting to see the various reports of how we're doing as a country. Some reports are that the process is stalled, and that we're not doing enough in Canada. But it appears Canada is trying.
I haven't seen any legit claim that any of the children were murdered, besides what some people think. I believe that there is somewhat of a consensus that most of the children died late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose it's possible to find someone still living who may have been accused of sexual assault, but unless this is someone new who is coming forward, I can't have seen the Crown not pursuing charges after TRC if a living individual was named if there was any likelihood of a conviction. Other than that, what would you charge anyone with, corporal punishment in schools was legal back then, it was only actually criminalized in 2004.
Respectfully, I'm not sure how a "consensus that most of the children died late 19th / early 20th century" is possible - these unmarked graves have only recently been discovered.
The fact remains, that while we don't know details about how / when / under what circumstances these children died, we do know that they were buried in unmarked graves, without record, by organizations that were entrusted with their care.
Further investigation will provide more information, obviously.
