All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[Brad Sallows]

Swearing allegiance to rights and treaties refers to two different things:

1) Aboriginal rights, which is the archaic notion that heredity - the accident of birth - should grant people different treatment before the law. Can't be squared with equality before the law, unless someone is proposing to overhaul everything so that all residents of a governed locality have the same rights to vote and run for public office.

2) Treaty rights, which are just creations of the transplanted system.

I see no reason for naturalized citizens to be taking oaths from which birth citizens are exempt. It should be changed to a "statement of ideals" or some other well-sounding fluff.

It's another feel-good move to match promises to implement the UNDRIP in full, which would be a retrograde step in the evolution towards a society in which people are equals. If it weren't for the amount of long-term damage, I'd enjoy the spectacle of the party that deprecated "two-tier citizenship" doing everything in its power to perpetuate the concept.

 

[Blackadder1916]

The sense I get from this swing of the discussion to "indigenous healing practices" may be explained by this quote from a piece published last year in the Canadian Medical Education Journal Creating space for Indigenous healing practices in patient care plans

The free-text responses also reflect an incomplete understanding of Indigenous healing practices. Many respondents stated that they need more information, and many described uncertainty about specific Indigenous healing practices (e.g., ingested/inhaled substances) and potential risks. There was also frequent conflation of Indigenous healing practices with forms of complementary medicine or religions. This was demonstrated with responses such as: “religious beliefs need to be kept separate from medicine” (respondent 6), and “I ask about all therapies the patient is using and specify ‘natural, vitamins, herbal or other’” (respondent 19).

It certainly described what I had thought was meant by "indigenous healing practices". It's amazing what a little research produces. https://www.fnha.ca/what-we-do/traditional-healing

 

[daftandbarmy]

Be on the lookout....

UPDATE: VicPD seeks two suspects in toppling of Captain James Cook statue in downtown Victoria​

Monument replaced with red dresses

The Victoria Police Department is looking for information on two suspects in regards to the destruction of the Captain James Cook Statue in downtown Victoria on Canada Day.
At approximately 8:30 p.m. on Thursday, a large group toppled the statue before tossing it in the harbour.

News Archives - Saanich News

www.saanichnews.com

 

[Navy_Pete]

Makes sense to me; no reason why you can't do both. It's not like modern medicine is really great at dealing with chronic conditions, and for things like joint pain etc some of the salves I've tried worked as well or better than modern equivalents. Just because it's old knowledge doesn't mean we've figured out something better, and we still can't duplicate some things that used to be common practice (like the mix of hydraulic cement used by the Romans for bridge supports that are still standing).

And a lot of the latest mental health treatments are just repackaged versions of what people did for centuries.

 

[OldSolduer]

Be on the lookout....

UPDATE: VicPD seeks two suspects in toppling of Captain James Cook statue in downtown Victoria​

Monument replaced with red dresses

The Victoria Police Department is looking for information on two suspects in regards to the destruction of the Captain James Cook Statue in downtown Victoria on Canada Day.
At approximately 8:30 p.m. on Thursday, a large group toppled the statue before tossing it in the harbour.

News Archives - Saanich News

www.saanichnews.com

If Victoria can do this so can Winnipeg. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I posted something on FB this morning alluding to that and it turned in to a shit show. I deleted it as it was counter productive

 

[daftandbarmy]

And.... tit for tat begins:

Totem pole set alight on Malahat likely in retaliation for tearing down of Cook statue​

Totem pole set alight on Malahat likely retaliation for tearing down of Cook statue: RCMP

The burning of a totem pole, seemingly in retaliation for the dismantling of a statue of Capt. James Cook on Canada Day in Victoria, has been denounced as an act of racism and an example of settler cruelty by the W̱ SÁNEĆ leadership council.

www.timescolonist.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wonder what the RCMP's first clue was.

 

[brihard]

If Victoria can do this so can Winnipeg. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I posted something on FB this morning alluding to that and it turned in to a shit show. I deleted it as it was counter productive

Winnipeg is investigating.

Realize that in any of these big protests, there are a lot of cameras and binoculars about. Best practice, if people aren’t already getting hurt, is to avoid inflaming the situation through arrests right now when they can instead follow later. It’s not worth sending a crowd control arrest team into an angry mob over a statue- I guarantee you’ll see way more tax dollars spent on a couple injured police than on cleaning and repairing a statue. Much safer to identify people now and effect arrests later, if It’s purely a matter of property damage or minor stupidity.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

And.... tit for tat begins:

Totem pole set alight on Malahat likely in retaliation for tearing down of Cook statue​

Totem pole set alight on Malahat likely retaliation for tearing down of Cook statue: RCMP

The burning of a totem pole, seemingly in retaliation for the dismantling of a statue of Capt. James Cook on Canada Day in Victoria, has been denounced as an act of racism and an example of settler cruelty by the W̱ SÁNEĆ leadership council.

www.timescolonist.com

I was just thinking that Totem poles celebrate a society based on slavery.....

 

[Brad Sallows]

I wonder that anyone can believe that cultural insults can only go in one direction.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Swearing allegiance to rights and treaties refers to two different things:

1) Aboriginal rights, which is the archaic notion that heredity - the accident of birth - should grant people different treatment before the law.

I was following a debate somewhere about the Wet'suwet'en pipeline saga. It looked like a number of the people and elected chiefs supported the pipeline. The hereditary chiefs were against it. Someone was saying the supreme court of Canada recognized the authority of the hereditary chiefs over elected chiefs (or words to that effect). If accurate that's one of the downsides of the traditional practices of aboriginals.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It looked like a number of the people and elected chiefs supported the pipeline. The hereditary chiefs were against it.

Yes. I don't mind a few trappings of power attached to hereditary positions (eg. our remnants of monarchy), but the federal government has a duty to protect people from that kind of happy horseshit and insist on elected government. Who chose hereditary leaders? When did they make that choice? Does anyone get to make it again, at regular intervals, in case people change their minds?

 

[OldSolduer]

Winnipeg is investigating.

Realize that in any of these big protests, there are a lot of cameras and binoculars about. Best practice, if people aren’t already getting hurt, is to avoid inflaming the situation through arrests right now when they can instead follow later. It’s not worth sending a crowd control arrest team into an angry mob over a statue- I guarantee you’ll see way more tax dollars spent on a couple injured police than on cleaning and repairing a statue. Much safer to identify people now and effect arrests later, if It’s purely a matter of property damage or minor stupidity.

Thank you. That's good info to know.

 

[OldSolduer]

I wonder that anyone can believe that cultural insults can only go in one direction.

You should listen to a group of (incarcerated) indigenous people speak about black people. You think the good old boys from the deep south are bad...

 

[lenaitch]

I was following a debate somewhere about the Wet'suwet'en pipeline saga. It looked like a number of the people and elected chiefs supported the pipeline. The hereditary chiefs were against it. Someone was saying the supreme court of Canada recognized the authority of the hereditary chiefs over elected chiefs (or words to that effect). If accurate that's one of the downsides of the traditional practices of aboriginals.

It would seem internecine politics is endemic in all systems:

Female hereditary chiefs challenge Wet’suwet’en MOU

Female hereditary chiefs launch human rights complaints over their exclusion

biv.com

*****

The way the weather is in BC right now, setting any kind of fire - for any reason - seems to suggest any number of criminal charges in addition to arson.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just to add to the complexity, Blueberry was where my colleague and I where accused of being the spawn of Satan because we were doing regulatory consulting for Site C.

Court drops bombshell on B.C. natural gas industry

BC infringed treaty, must stop approving industrial development in natural gas heartland

biv.com

 

[Eaglelord17]

Winnipeg is investigating.

Realize that in any of these big protests, there are a lot of cameras and binoculars about. Best practice, if people aren’t already getting hurt, is to avoid inflaming the situation through arrests right now when they can instead follow later. It’s not worth sending a crowd control arrest team into an angry mob over a statue- I guarantee you’ll see way more tax dollars spent on a couple injured police than on cleaning and repairing a statue. Much safer to identify people now and effect arrests later, if It’s purely a matter of property damage or minor stupidity.

Sometimes Law and Order requires a strong hand and a immediate stopping of these actions. If this was Russia the cops would have marched in there and started hitting everyone who was in the way with batons and I guarantee you they would have stopped their illegal actions pretty quickly. Not saying that should be our immediate go to, but if someone is breaking the law and they are seen getting away with it, it causes others to become emboldened to do it elsewhere. The reason so many statues are being torn down is because there is no seen consequences to not tearing them down. Sometimes it isn't about the money, rather the principal.

 

[RangerRay]

While my brain understands why the police would watch events unfold then follow up afterwards (less violence is a plus) I must admit I felt physically ill watching them topple the statues then just walk away.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Just to add to the complexity, Blueberry was where my colleague and I where accused of being the spawn of Satan because we were doing regulatory consulting for Site C.

Court drops bombshell on B.C. natural gas industry

BC infringed treaty, must stop approving industrial development in natural gas heartland

biv.com

But did anyone up there accuse you of being a ‘colonial facilitator’?

I thought not

 

[brihard]

What degree of bodily harm is

Sometimes Law and Order requires a strong hand and a immediate stopping of these actions. If this was Russia the cops would have marched in there and started hitting everyone who was in the way with batons and I guarantee you they would have stopped their illegal actions pretty quickly. Not saying that should be our immediate go to, but if someone is breaking the law and they are seen getting away with it, it causes others to become emboldened to do it elsewhere. The reason so many statues are being torn down is because there is no seen consequences to not tearing them down. Sometimes it isn't about the money, rather the principal.

Frankly I feel pride and relief that our policing profession doesn’t behave the way seen in places like Russia. would the Russians go in and crack skulls to save a statue? Sure. Is that in line with our values? Doubtful.

What degree of bodily harm is a statue worth? I’m on a public order unit. How far would you have us go in the moment to stop people pulling a statue down and effect immediate arrest? How much injury are you willing to risk to me or the men and women to my right and left over it? Just how heavy-handed would you have us be? Personally I see a huge different between something like pulling down a statue that’s easily remade, versus a riot that’s destroying businesses and institutions, setting fires, etc.

Right now we have a societal tension that’s causing a lot of pressure. Do we want to make a pressure cooker out of it, or instead let that pressure bleed off? Given the underlying issues in all of this, I’m not sure sending a bunch of (mostly white) police in to suppress dissent, protests, and relatively minor vandalism by force necessarily serves the larger strategic objectives of our government. But that’s just me.