All Things Richard Rohmer (merged)

[Edward Campbell]

This is one of those things I will not comment on because of my respect for and friendship with the owner of this site. If that is too far out, mods please delate and deduct a ton of midpoints, but the gentleman in question may have some baggage.

Well, I don't mind commenting, friendship notwithstanding: this is terminally f'ing stupid. The CDS is a f'ing disgrace and he is wasting taxpayers' money to "honour" and ass. The PM needs to fire them both, now ... for being twits.

 

[OldSolduer]

I like the idea of a Court Jester.  Of course that would be an officer classification.

 

[Happy Guy]

I remember reading one of his awful novels and his role as a military commentator to Global News (?) during the Falkland Islands war.  From what I can read Gen Rohmer is not exactly the court jester type nor would he want to play the role of one.

I do not know not what this role is for or how it can contribute to the CAF, but the question that I ask myself is why did the CDS ask him and what does he truly bring to the table on behalf of the CAF?  Influence?  If the answer is court jester then I'm truly sadden to know that the CAF, which I served for more than 30 years in, has lost its way.

 

[OldSolduer]

Not saying Mr. Rohmer should be a court jester.

And the CAF has lost its way, for a number of years now, starting with the stripping of combat support element from the infantry, the fight over stovepipe organizations and the sad state of our RCN and RCAF, not to mention the bloat in the various HQs.

 

[The Bread Guy]

:Tin-Foil-Hat: part:  Last summer, the boss of the RCAF sought some help with the Honoraries, and while MERX says the work was awarded for $147,555.40 (see attached), no name has been given.  I'm waiting to hear from PWGSC re:  who won that one, but could this be a roll-up of sorts (even if the "retired no later than" specs in the original haven't been met here)?  Or is this apples and oranges?  More, as I get it (or not) from PWGSC ....

The latest on this:  the correct link to the award for the RCAF advisory position says the winning bidder was Landsdowne Technologies, whose team does NOT include Richard Rohmer.  It is, indeed, apples vs. oranges.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not the first honorary position he has held
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rohmer
He is the Honorary Deputy Commissioner of the OPP, Honorary Chief of Toronto EMS, Honorary Fire Chief of Collingwood, named First Honorary Chief Of Paramedics in Ontario, and Honorary Detective of the Toronto Police Service
He also negotiated the donation of Conrad Black's collection of Duplessis papers in exchange for an Honorary Degree
Caveat to this, the source to the above is Wikipedia
But interesting seeing as he is now Honorary Advisor to CDS

Tom

I wouldn't trust his Wiki entry. I don't know who wrote it, but since it appears to contain lots of fiction, it could have been him /SARC OFF.

It says, for instance that he is still a practicing lawyer at his Law firm, but also that he has been appointed to the Court of Appeals of Ontario in 2012. That is not possible: Immediately upon being appointed to the bench of a Court, you must cease all law practice and you cease to be part of the law society you belonged to. Second, The Ontario court of Appeals, a federal appointment court has a specific and limited number of seats: there are no "honorary" appointments in law and the ON Court of Appeals does not list him as a judge. Finally, being appointed in 2012 would mean he would have been appointed at age 88, which is 13 years AFTER the compulsory retirement age for judges in canada.

 

[mariomike]

I wouldn't trust his Wiki entry. I don't know who wrote it, but since it appears to contain lots of fiction, it could have been him /SARC OFF.

Don't know about the rest of it, but at least a small part of it is true:
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/171047806-mayor-rob-ford-shares-a-laugh-with-general-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QVGlvDUFjRyOGLT7a7pFjEjfmaXPGhklXAxKzTid6Yl2

 

[expwor]

I wouldn't trust his Wiki entry. I don't know who wrote it, but since it appears to contain lots of fiction, it could have been him /SARC OFF.

It says, for instance that he is still a practicing lawyer at his Law firm, but also that he has been appointed to the Court of Appeals of Ontario in 2012. That is not possible: Immediately upon being appointed to the bench of a Court, you must cease all law practice and you cease to be part of the law society you belonged to. Second, The Ontario court of Appeals, a federal appointment court has a specific and limited number of seats: there are no "honorary" appointments in law and the ON Court of Appeals does not list him as a judge. Finally, being appointed in 2012 would mean he would have been appointed at age 88, which is 13 years AFTER the compulsory retirement age for judges in canada.

I don't trust Wikipedia, hence making sure not just once but twice, once as a caveat, I cited it as my source if you will, of "information"
But I found it interesting under the circumstances of him being named Honorary Advisor to CDS, to see a listing of other "honorary" appointments

Tom

 

[Happy Guy]

Not saying Mr. Rohmer should be a court jester.

And the CAF has lost its way, for a number of years now, starting with the stripping of combat support element from the infantry, the fight over stovepipe organizations and the sad state of our RCN and RCAF, not to mention the bloat in the various HQs.

The inf bn lost the combat support elements in the mid-1990s with personnel cutbacks, but many of the units lost what was considered important combat capabilities.
Being in NDHQ now for six months I see stovepipes organizations but many of the problems are a combination of ignorance of how the system is supposed to work and personalities conflicts.
It has been well known to the RCAF, RCN and now the CA that our collective future modernization projects are in danger and something has to give.
As for bloated HQs, I concur HQ CJOC and the environment's HQs are still bloated.
I do not a see vast difference between the previous and current governments.
I'm getting deja vu with the "decade of darkness".
Back to the topic I do not see Gen Rohmer as a court jester.

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
Back to the topic I do not see Gen Rohmer as a court jester.

He's not the court jester but he and his appointment as an 'honorary advisor,' whatever that is, are both wastes of time and money. I know it's not much money, but it's some and, worse, it is indicative of a HQ, a command superstructure, and, indeed, a capital city that is out of touch ... the CF needs a new paint job: a whole helluva lots less gold and brass (admirals and generals) and a lot more grey and green (ships, soldiers, trucks, weapons and aircraft).

I suggest we can start reducing the useless gold and brass by firing both Gens Lawson and Rohmer ... "pour encourager les autres."

 

[Halifax Tar]

He's not the court jester but he and his appointment as an 'honorary advisor,' whatever that is, are both wastes of time and money. I know it's not much money, but it's some and, worse, it is indicative of a HQ, a command superstructure, and, indeed, a capital city that is out of touch ... the CF needs a new paint job: a whole helluva lots less gold and brass (admirals and generals) and a lot more grey and green (ships, soldiers, trucks, weapons and aircraft).

I suggest we can start reducing the useless gold and brass by firing both Gens Lawson and Rohmer ... "pour encourager les autres."

Lol don't hold back ERC tell us how you really feel. 

Really the only ones who care are us...  And we don't represent that much voting power.

 

[Happy Guy]

The vast majority of us in the CAF care because we are professionals.

Senior military or influential people read this forum and they report back to the grownups about the "feelings" here.  As evidence I refer to the the National Defence Dress Committee minutes that were suddenly changed once a member of this forum announced certain sections concerning the pips and crowns.

Like the majority of the people in the forum we don't understand the need or requirement for this position except perhaps this was done as a last gesture to a WWII verteran who served his country with dignity and honour.  One thing is certain though, NDHQ strategic messaging failed, with this announcement, with the serving members of the CAF.

 

[OldSolduer]

Maybe that is the CDS intent, but it stinks.

 

[expwor]

The vast majority of us in the CAF care because we are professionals.

Senior military or influential people read this forum and they report back to the grownups about the "feelings" here.  As evidence I refer to the the National Defence Dress Committee minutes that were suddenly changed once a member of this forum announced certain sections concerning the pips and crowns.

Like the majority of the people in the forum we don't understand the need or requirement for this position except perhaps this was done as a last gesture to a WWII verteran who served his country with dignity and honour.  One thing is certain though, NDHQ strategic messaging failed, with this announcement, with the serving members of the CAF.

Maybe the intent, but how many WWII veterans who also served their country with dignity and honour have been afforded similar such posts.  My question, and a question, is what is so special about Gen Rohmer compared to all other veterans to be given such a plum posting
But what do I know, I'm a civie looking from the outside in

Tom

 

[OldSolduer]

One thing I have noticed is that this CDS doesn't communicate all that well, nor does he inspire confidence in the troops. This is one example of it.

 

[PuckChaser]

But they needed a fighter pilot to talk fighter stuff for the F-35s, whether he was the best man for the job or not.

I find the CFCWO on the other hand to be a fantastic speaker, and fills his role extremely well. Seems to make the effort to get out and speak with the troops as much as possible.

 

[Mick]

I will admit that I do not quite understand the animosity / anger towards this Honorary appointment (nor do I really understand the necessity of it). 

The DND release very clearly states that the appointment has been made expressly to "recognize MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer’s contributions to the CAF," in addition to "formaliz[ing] the long-standing relationship MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer has maintained with the most senior leadership of the CAF since his retirement in 1981."

As with other Honorary appointments, it stands to reason that it is an unpaid position.  Clearly Mr. Rohmer has CAF uniforms already in his possession (as he has had for decades).

Does anyone actually believe that as an Honorary Advisor appointed primarily in recognition of previous distinguished military service, he will have any role whatsoever in actually advising the CDS in place of his actual staff of advisors, assistants, and subordinates, or that he will be paid?

More realistically, it is merely a gesture not unlike an Honorary appointment in the OPP or EMS organizations to which Mr. Rohmer has previously been appointed.

Can anyone seriously argue that this Honorary appointment will be expensive, or somehow usurp authority/influence from the CDS's currently-serving, full-time, actual advisors?

I only ask because I interpreted the appointment as an attempt to recognize a prominent military veteran, not the creation of an expensive and influential advisory office.

 

[armyvern]

I will admit that I do not quite understand the animosity / anger towards this Honorary appointment (nor do I really understand the necessity of it). 

The DND release very clearly states that the appointment has been made expressly to "recognize MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer’s contributions to the CAF," in addition to "formaliz[ing] the long-standing relationship MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer has maintained with the most senior leadership of the CAF since his retirement in 1981."

As with other Honorary appointments, it stands to reason that it is an unpaid position.  Clearly Mr. Rohmer has CAF uniforms already in his possession (as he has had for decades).

Does anyone actually believe that as an Honorary Advisor appointed primarily in recognition of previous distinguished military service, he will have any role whatsoever in actually advising the CDS in place of his actual staff of advisors, assistants, and subordinates, or that he will be paid?

More realistically, it is merely a gesture not unlike an Honorary appointment in the OPP or EMS organizations to which Mr. Rohmer has previously been appointed.

Can anyone seriously argue that this Honorary appointment will be expensive, or somehow usurp authority/influence from the CDS's currently-serving, full-time, actual advisors?

I only ask because I interpreted the appointment as an attempt to recognize a prominent military veteran, not the creation of an expensive and influential advisory office.

It's the growth of yet more brass at a time when we need boots on the ground, less HQs and, yes, less officers -- especially of the staff type (many of whom[most??] forget that they are indeed staff, not command, these days).

Expensive? No, but just more money being needlessly wasted on buttons, bows, forced reversion to outdated rank insignias that not of our generation and which we did not wear into our generation's battles, and more needless positions - even if Honorary at the expense of tactical level needs.

Will the money saved on his travel expense claims buy us anything too special instead? No, but tally that up with all the other harkening back to yesteryear that has been occurring for the past few years and the troops could probably have some damn winter boots because, meanwhile, down here in the lowlands midst Canadian winter ... Canadian troops who don't sit on their duffs in offices are still finding that mukluks (winter boots!) are still RESTRICTED issue for the second winter in a row.  Just brilliant.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Maybe the intent, but how many WWII veterans who also served their country with dignity and honour have been afforded similar such posts.  My question, and a question, is what is so special about Gen Rohmer compared to all other veterans to be given such a plum posting
But what do I know, I'm a civie looking from the outside in

Tom

And that, Tom, is what I believe is the crux of the matter.

I suppose I'm the "whiner-in-chief" here, the guy about whom mick worries ... my objection is not to "honoraries," per se, they've been around since Jesus was a lance jack and, until recently, they were, by and large retired folks with some attachment to the unit they served. (I will admit to some concerns about some recent appointments that exhibit little real connection to the units or formations, despite being civic leaders or, in a few cases, celebrities.) My objection is to MGen (ret'd) Rohmer; I don't think his service is all that special ... in fact I'll go farther and say that I think he is a self important ass. That's my opinion, only, and it's worth exactly what you're paying for it. 


Edited to add: and that's my last. I've said enough, perhaps too much, about this.

 

[Mick]

I understand frustration based on a perception that resources are being allocated to window-dressing, rather than operational needs (pips and crowns vs. mukluks).

I would question, however, whether an honorary appointment can really be considered as HQ growth, or realistically be seen as a position that exists at the expense of established (i.e. non-honorary) positions.

If the answer is yes, should unit/branch-level honoraries (HCol / HLCol / Col Cmdt / HCapt(N)) be abolished / reduced?  Do Army Reserve units need both Col and LCol honorary appointments?

Finally, out of curiosity, can anyone here speak to how honoraries' expenses are handled (whose budget takes the hit)?