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All Things Richard Rohmer (merged)

Well said Vern.

It's the perception of the CDS taking care of a museum fossil and a person in a position of privilege already vice taking care of his troops. ..that pesky Principle of Leadership....."Know your troops and promote their welfare".


 
mick said:
I would question, however, whether an honorary appointment can really be considered as HQ growth, or realistically be seen as a position that exists at the expense of established (i.e. non-honorary) positions.
It's also a question of priorities. 

To pick one example, does one spend time/effort getting a former General an extra title, or does one spend time/effort getting mukluks to an military that's supposed to be, among other tasks, protecting places where mukluks are NEEDED (not preferred).
 
Old Sweat said:
This is one of those things I will not comment on because of my respect for and friendship with the owner of this site. If that is too far out, mods please delate and deduct a ton of midpoints, but the gentleman in question may have some baggage.

I think I know where you are going with this and as a lay person watching him over the years I have the same sentiment.
 
Jim Seggie said:
Well said Vern.

It's the perception of the CDS taking care of a museum fossil and a person in a position of privilege already vice taking care of his troops. ..that pesky Principle of Leadership.....

It seems a lot of those principles are forgotten once they take on a junior staff role.
 
mick said:
I only ask because I interpreted the appointment as an attempt to recognize a prominent military veteran, not the creation of an expensive and influential advisory office.

Then give him a CDS coin, and a damend good pat on the back and send him back to the old folks' home?  ::)
 
He was Chancellor at the University of Windsor, back in the 70's. My liberal, artsy farsty, naval reservist sister bought one of his books and had it autographed for me, when I went Reg Force.

I managed to read the first chapter and put it down. It's on my shelf, for almost, 45 years.

I have never felt compelled to pick it up again.

Perhaps I'll carve out the pages and hide a pistol in it.

No civilized and educated person will ever find it there, and Darwin award types won't go near the book case.

Lastly, if he's so concerned about the plight of Veterans, he should put his law firm against the Feds.
 
Jim Seggie said:
One thing I have noticed is that this CDS doesn't communicate all that well, nor does he inspire confidence in the troops. This is one example of it.

And this surprises you? He is Air Force*.

In the 70's and early 80's, we had an old joke about CDS' selection:

"If you want good leadership, pick a General; good administration, pick an Admiral, and for good politics, pick an Air General."

I would like to point out that when the CDS last changed, there was an Admiral in the running. A tough but fair good communicator who had excellent administrative skills and a fair record behind him of leaving organizations in excellent shape, but also the balls to tell powers that be to stuff it when needed (all of this my personal view) but we did not get Admiral Donalson, we got an Air General, just as we entered a phase of budget restrictions that would have called for a good administrator. We got bows, buttons and ribbons as a distraction from administrative incompetence instead, which is why NDHQ does not seem to be feeling the cuts it should while people in the field have to do more with less again and suffer the consequences (such as cutting reasonable access to alcohol at sea).
/RANT OFF

*: Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against members or officers of the Air Force . However, it is my personal view that, unlike admirals and general officers of the Army, there is nothing in the senior career progression of Air Force generals (usually coming from the pilot classification) that prepares them for senior command or headquarter work. It is simply the nature of air forces that the pilots need not lead people in combat, other than themselves, in the large numbers that require you to inspire and and empower while earning the trust of your followers. For instance, in the AF, it is more for the pilot to trust that his ground crew has done everything so that he will come back alive, than for the pilot to inspire trust in his ground crew that he will bring them back alive. In the Army and Navy, its is the more classic model, where the crew and soldiers have to trust that their officers know what to do to bring them all back alive. 
 
OGBD,

Without necessarily defending any one specific person, your critique of pilots lacks specificity. It is about like saying that all MARS Officers are jerks and eat their own, because of the way they are trained (and I have a tonne of insight into how badly MARS Officers are often trained and mentored and the monsters that get created as a result). Pilots (aircrew in general, really) have varying degrees of leadership opportunities, depending on the fleet in which they are employed. Much like most other occupations.

There are poor leaders, from every element, that make it to the top (or nearly so). My observation on what the common factor is? Certain people seem to get identified as golden children early on. They are then pushed through the system, being coddled and protected all the way, because to do otherwise (after a certain point) would be to admit an error in judgement. These ambitious people often rise far above where they should in the CF without being fully tested, causing incalculable damage through either incompetence or because they lack scruples and will put their own needs first before that of the CF. I would also like to think that they are in the minority. Most leaders in the CF are good ones. If you don't believe me, visit any other organization or corporation of similar size and see the problems they deal with.

 
That is why I was not name specific, SKT. And I agree with you on every element having poor leaders.

My point is more of an institutional one: The methods of operation of the Air Force makes it difficult for the officers to develop the higher levels of leadership required to run large organizations, in my opinion. Just to use the Infantry as a n example: the young officer is put in charge of a platoon, which he must lead and inspire, thus solidifying his newly acquired leadership skills from Infantry school. He then moves on to greater leadership positions of running a Company, having to inspire and lead a larger group of people, then battalion, then a Brigade, etc. Each step of the way, he is the leader who must be trusted by all under his command and inspire them to perform their duty while retaining their trust that he is looking out for their welfare. The Naval model is about the same though not quite as extreme as the army model since there is a more direct (in the sense of lack of physical distance) line of supervision present on a ship than in the army so the army leader must instill greater inspiration in its members that could be out of direct reach when performing their duties.

In the Air force, the pilot officer may want to go down and meet the ground crew, but he does not have to lead them, inspire them or gain their trust to be able to do his flying. So he does not have to grow his leadership skills early on in his career. He does not even have to be overseen by someone who "leads" him. The pilot's squadron leader need not inspire his pilots to fight, but rather in a reversal, it is for the young pilot to prove himself trustworthy to the squadron leader. As they move up the chain, the air force officers then find themselves running larger and more and more complex technical staffs, which develops leadership of the civilian CEO type, but not necessarily of the military "field" type, in my view.

Now, this does not means that the Air Force does not develop great military leaders for senior HQ's, but that on average, the other two elements produce a lot more simply because of the nature of their organization.

I must say, however, that in my 26+ years in active service, I have seen many Generals and Admirals that I did not know from atom step on the dais and have such charisma, leadership and communication skills that after a few sentences, I completely trusted them and would have gone anywhere with them to fight. I have never had that experience with an Air Force general.

Again here, I want to make sure I am not misunderstood: I have nothing against the Air Force, their members or officers, and this is my personal view, and this view is that this is purely institutional and results from the different nature of each of the elements (And yes, SKT, I too have seen some pretty bad apple MARS officers allowed to climb up the ladder when they shouldn't have).     
 
Oldgateboatdriver,

From your previous post, I think this might be one of the reasons why the RCAF is looking at developing a program where the Lts are "mentored" by WOs and Jr Capts "mentored" by MWOs. Kinda what the Army does; it was mentioned a week ago by the RCAF CWO during a town hall.
 
That won't solve anything either... exactly where are the MWOs and WOs getting either leadership (vice management) or staff skills in the Air Force.

This isn't just a Canadian pronlem, Air Forces writ large, in my OutCan experience, have it, amongst other problems.  However, the lack of proper Naval Aviation and Army Aviation in Canada exasperates it.
 
Which of the RCAF's air forces are we talking about?
 
Like he said, because there are five (and two navies, and three armies)....
 
I don't know its even that simple... for instance all the useful bits tying MH and MP together are gone.  Add to that we are now ISR, whatever way the RCAF is defining that (which isn't clear either).

Some of us never thought we'd miss MAG, but the useful bits are gone and only the bloat remains.  Same with the Maritime Warfare Authority.

But hey, luckly we're all RCAF... that should solve it all, especially as we get more mentors to tell us how it used to be :-)
 
Baz said:
This isn't just a Canadian pronlem, Air Forces writ large, in my OutCan experience, have it, amongst other problems.  However, the lack of proper Naval Aviation and Army Aviation in Canada exasperates it.

I was with you up until the underlined part.  I'm not sure how having Naval Aviation and Army Aviation would change aircrew leadership training/experience? 

From seeing how they work in my current posting, RAN/ARA aviation branches are pretty "independent" as well and seem to attract the same complaints as OGBD stated re: Pilot/aircrew leadership. 
 
There is a basic issue with giving aircrew leadership traing in any of the aviation branches of seen.

However, in my experience, Naval and Army Aviators, being immersed in their "host" environments, tend to get more rounded, including more leadership opportunities at the junior level.

A robust example is the USMC, where everyone is a "rifleman first."
 
Baz said:
That won't solve anything either... exactly where are the MWOs and WOs getting either leadership (vice management) or staff skills in the Air Force.

This isn't just a Canadian pronlem, Air Forces writ large, in my OutCan experience, have it, amongst other problems.  However, the lack of proper Naval Aviation and Army Aviation in Canada exasperates it.

My observation as a hard (well as hard as Christmas candy)Army CWO is that the WOs of the RCAF are technicians....that is to say their trades are highly technical and less emphasis is placed on leadership.

I know some Army trades are quite technical as well, but we, at least in the infantry, tend to pay loads of attention to leadership, starting very early in a soldier's career.
 
First, to paraphrase slightly:

"The position of Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff was created to recognize [some guy]'s contributions to the Canadian Armed Forces, and the unique advice and guidance that he provides to the Chief of the Defence Staff, drawing from his wealth of experience in service to Canada."

Now: WTF?  Really?
 
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