Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Quirky]

You cant really equate, or we shouldn't have, SDA and LDA. Ships are vastly busier than a field unit and spend way more time away at sea than field units do in training areas. And not all members of a field unit go to live under canvass when a field unit goes to the field. The Army FUBAR'd LDA and doesn't have the gumption to correct it.

SDA for the Navy where people sign up to, presumably, go onto a boat and sail.
LDA for the Army where people sign up to, presumably, play soldier in the field.
Aircrew allowances for the AF where people sign up for a trade where you're likely expected to fly.

I get the need to compensate people for doing more than their home-front co-workers, however wouldn't it be easier to just pay people more, vise having an allowance, who DAG green for sailings/field/flying? Give them different pay scales that way your overall readiness is tied to pension.

 

[CountDC]

You cant really equate, or we shouldn't have, SDA and LDA. Ships are vastly busier than a field unit and spend way more time away at sea than field units do in training areas. And not all members of a field unit go to live under canvass when a field unit goes to the field. The Army FUBAR'd LDA and doesn't have the gumption to correct it.



That is probably the future. Air and Sea will probably be mostly remote or AI. But that's not happening in the visual future.



Half of your post is already happening, the other half just isn't.

They should have stayed with the FOA, maybe increased the daily amount.

the other half isn't happening because we don't have that cool game yet. Need the remote and AI to make it like an online game they can play. Imagine the recruiting possibilities then. No medical or physical required. Recruiting test is to play the online game on your system at home and if you do good enough you are in and go live. Not much of a stretch as we already have people thinking games such as COD is 100% realistic. Doesn't everyone get blasted by 10 rounds, turn and one shot the other guy who then respawns and charges again?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I get the need to compensate people for doing more than their home-front co-workers, however wouldn't it be easier to just pay people more, vise having an allowance, who DAG green for sailings/field/flying? Give them different pay scales that way your overall readiness is tied to pension.

As long as the amount more is substantial than those who don't, sounds like a plan.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Opposite: I didn't understand why they were entitled to Sea Pay (though if I was getting it, I probably wouldn't have cared ).

What's a Freddy?

In the army on courses a failed "trace" or leadership activity is sometimes referred to colloquially as a "Freddy." So if you fail a trace (a section attack for example) then you might say to your friends afterwards "I Freddied that one really bad." You get warnings for each failed activity, which can lead to cease training.

Some have said that the proximity of Fredericton to Gagetown (Combat Training Centre) has something to do with the term. Some people call Fredericton "Freddy", so maybe it crept in that way? Perhaps Freddy is softer than Failed? Who knows?

Anyhoo.

 

[Eaglelord17]

SDA for the Navy where people sign up to, presumably, go onto a boat and sail.
LDA for the Army where people sign up to, presumably, play soldier in the field.
Aircrew allowances for the AF where people sign up for a trade where you're likely expected to fly.

I get the need to compensate people for doing more than their home-front co-workers, however wouldn't it be easier to just pay people more, vise having an allowance, who DAG green for sailings/field/flying? Give them different pay scales that way your overall readiness is tied to pension.

Your missing the point in SDA/LDA.

It was originally created to try and encourage people to want to go in the field/to sea and compensate them for a increased hardship over simply being in barracks.

It isn’t supposed to be a wage increase, nor is it supposed to be income you rely on, rather money that is supposed to be earned on a periodic basis as a slight compensation for increased hardship during that time. Look at it more like overtime pay than anything else.

The current system is open to exploitation and doesn’t encourage people to actually go to the field/sea. To me that means it should either be changed or removed. Personally I would rather see changed. I would also argue sea pay could be retained as a monthly allowance for those who are on the duty ship due to the requirement to move at a moments notice.

I would also argue that levels of SDA/LDA based off time served in those environments is also stupid. Your all sharing the same hardship at the time, you should all receive the same pay. It doesn’t magically get harder because you have been assigned to a ship/unit for a decade.

All of this is heresy though as it isn’t the status quo.

 

[dapaterson]

The two things people hate the most are the status quo, and change.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The two things people hate the most are the status quo, and change.

Isn’t that three things?

 

[dapaterson]

Isn’t that three things?

Look, I came here for an argument.

 

[GR66]

Look, I came here for an argument.

No you haven't

 

[dapaterson]

No you haven't

That's just contradiction.

 

[Lumber]

That's just contradiction.

No it's not.

 

[dapaterson]

No it's not.

Yes it is!

 

[kratz]

Who's on second?

 

[Grimey]

No you haven't

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That went exactly as I had hoped…

 

[daftandbarmy]

That went exactly as I had hoped…

 

[Halifax Tar]

Your missing the point in SDA/LDA.

It was originally created to try and encourage people to want to go in the field/to sea and compensate them for a increased hardship over simply being in barracks.

And right now its doing that, speaking for SDA only. Its probably one of the few things that is keeping people sailing.

It isn’t supposed to be a wage increase, nor is it supposed to be income you rely on, rather money that is supposed to be earned on a periodic basis as a slight compensation for increased hardship during that time. Look at it more like overtime pay than anything else.

That's fine, and smart people don't build it into things like mortgage calculations. That doesn't change the fact is extra pay.

The current system is open to exploitation and doesn’t encourage people to actually go to the field/sea. To me that means it should either be changed or removed. Personally I would rather see changed. I would also argue sea pay could be retained as a monthly allowance for those who are on the duty ship due to the requirement to move at a moments notice.

So change the parameters. Unfit sea means no sea pay.

I would also argue that levels of SDA/LDA based off time served in those environments is also stupid. Your all sharing the same hardship at the time, you should all receive the same pay. It doesn’t magically get harder because you have been assigned to a ship/unit for a decade.

Disagree. You should be rewarded for continually going through the hardship. We do the same thing for hazard and risk pay. There is a bonus that goes up the more times you've received the benefit.

We also have to be careful. We are removing incentives to stick around and go up in rank.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I have heard rumours for years now that the CAF wanted to go back to SDA/LDA only while at sea/in the field.

Right now it's a bit of joke in some places with people collecting hundreds of dollars in SDA/LDA every month, but spending at most a week or two at sea/in the field per year. I personally know of several people who all but outright said they gamed the system to collect SDA/LDA without ever having to go do what they were making extra money to do.

At the base rate it's ~$3900/year based on posting message, by the time you have a few years with the right UICs it's ~$7200/year

$7200/year before taxes.

I get AIRCRA, but after taxes the money that goes into my account isn’t much for the requirements to fly; currencies etc.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Or in the aircrew world, switching everything to “casual aircrew pay”.

Me watching folks fight over all of the flights:

I think you’d see a lot of people not care if their categories and currencies are up to date it AIRCRA for Reg/class B went the way it is for Cl A. Serviceability is the shits, some people are almost hitting 90 and avoiding a STF in the final hour. Taking AIRCRA would result is some people saying “fack it” and just TXimg (IMO).

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

And right now its doing that, speaking for SDA only. Its probably one of the few things that is keeping people sailing.

Agreed

That's fine, and smart people don't build it into things like mortgage calculations. That doesn't change the fact is extra pay.



So change the parameters. Unfit sea means no sea pay.

Agreed again

Disagree. You should be rewarded for continually going through the hardship. We do the same thing for hazard and risk pay. There is a bonus that goes up the more times you've received the benefit.

We also have to be careful. We are removing incentives to stick around and go up in rank.

The pay schemes for sailing and deploying make it incredibly lucrative. I made roughly $145,000 dollars the year of my last deployment, a substantial majority of it was also tax free and the only thing I spent money on was "keeping the lights on" at home.

The money you can make with a few overseas expeditions can be life changing if you're smart with it and don't waste it on frivolous things.

The Regular Force CAF, which is a volunteer force, operates entirely off a carrot and stick model and it has to for people to put up with the institutional stupidity. The problem is, if you start taking away the carrots, nobody is going to want to do the work anymore.

Especially when you consider some of the boondoggles the CAF has found itself involved in since the fall of the Soviet Union.

The model is similar to other industries like Oil & Gas, Mining, etc. High pay for thankless work that one would otherwise not want to do.

And yes.... that essentially makes it a pseudo-mercenary force.