Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Halifax Tar]

A lot of fishermen are well off however many are not dependent on the fishery and area they fish. Some 100% deserve and need EI. The issue back home in NL is that many communities are so small, there is not a big option to find a job after their season ends. Its easy to say like some do for them to move away for work but its not always that cut and dry.

The only poor fisherman is the fiscally irresponsible fisherman.

As for communities...

We have to stop propping up dead communities because people have emotional attachments. Maritimes and NFLD I'm looking right at you.

You can live in Two Kitty Harbor all you'd like, but don't expect tax dollars to prop up your existence because anything west of NB is terrifying. People have migrated for a better life since the dawn of time, get a move on.

 

[Stoker]

The only poor fisherman is the fiscally irresponsible fisherman.

As for communities...

We have to stop propping up dead communities because people have emotional attachments. Maritimes and NFLD I'm looking right at you.

You can live in Two Kitty Harbor all you'd like, but don't expect tax dollars to prop up your existence because anything west of NB is terrifying. People have migrated for a better life since the dawn of time, get a move on.

Yep I heard all this before from people who never walked in their shoes and who seem jealous of their lifestyle and where they live. Cool be judgmental, I'm sure they care.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yep I heard all this before from people who never walked in their shoes and who seem jealous of their lifestyle and where they live. Cool be judgmental, I'm sure they care.

That's because its right.

We're wasting money on social programs being pumped into small communities because people don't want to move on and make an effort to better themselves.

Live where you like, that's freedom. But don't expect the rest of to cover your bills. Make. Good. Choices. Take responsibility for your station and if you're not happy with it, fix it.

I come from a small village north of Kingston. It's dead. Such as life. I have interest in moving back.

No one is jealous of the dead beats living on the dole in New Ross, NS.

 

[CountDC]

The EI thought comes from the members that would retire with pension, apply for EI and get rejected. They had to get another job and accumulate the required period there to draw it. Others like my brother who left after his initial TOS with no pension however were able to draw EI. This is another case of sour grapes, I also would rather not pay it but just like taxes we all have to so everyone may benefit.

 

[ballz]

lol tell me you don't understand the fishing industry, without telling me you don't understand the fishing industry.

I grew up in an end-of-the-road outport community in Newfoundland. My great grandfather was a fisherman, my grandfather was a fisherman, and my father hauled nets in the mornings before he went to school growing up when the season overlapped and then fished in the summers growing up.

The community I grew up in has had one major employer since it came into existence, the fish plant, which every person in my family has worked in.

My father went on to do heavy equipment and worked road construction from about the time I was born until I was 11. And that point he

One of my best friends owns a decent-sized vessel and employs up to 20 people at peak.

I still visit every year or two and hang out with all da b'ys.

So I think I've got a pretty good understanding.

It's not the fishermen that need the EI,

And yet they collect it... they even have special rules to allow them to collect it that aren't there to help other self-employed people in Canada. Literally their own EI program and special "regions" to get them EI easier and all it costs them is some pride and dignity.

it's the hired help. The fishermen collect because they can, not because they need it. It's the fish plants and farms that are already heavily dependant on foreign workers that require a core of locals to run the plant/farm while the cheap imported labour does the menial jobs.

Funny, never saw a single foreign worker in my hometown... saw lots in Corner Brook working in Tim Hortons, the malls, etc. They worked year-round for minimum wage because the people in my town wouldn't work those kinda jobs - why would they when they can just work 14 weeks a year and then suck out on the Tim Horton's employee who works year-round instead. All the same people every getting a call from the plant to get their 14 weeks of work once so they can get "top unemployment." After their 14 weeks were up, laid off, and someone else from the town brought in for their turn.

Never got to work with the plant? No worries, the provincial government gives out shitty little grants to each town so they can hire you to do nothing for 14 weeks so you can get your stamps. Why? Well because welfare is a provincial government responsibility so its cheaper for them to pay you min wage for 14 weeks so you can get EI, that way the poor bastard who left home and is working in Alberta can pay for your bread for the next 38 weeks instead of the provincial government.

It's a whole scheme that makes Tuk Tuk drivers from Thailand look like honest and astute entrepreneurs.

Also, who do you think fixes your roads, and builds things?

What's your point? They get paid for the work they do, when they do it. Plenty of people work in those industries year-round.

It's cheap and easy to make fun on the East Coast fishermen and hired help,

I'm not "making fun," I'm calling it out for what it is. If it hurts your feelings, that's the problem with the truth - it hurts.

Yep I heard all this before from people who never walked in their shoes and who seem jealous of their lifestyle and where they live.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I grew up in an end-of-the-road outport community in Newfoundland. My great grandfather was a fisherman, my grandfather was a fisherman, and my father hauled nets in the mornings before he went to school growing up when the season overlapped and then fished in the summers growing up.

The community I grew up in has had one major employer since it came into existence, the fish plant, which every person in my family has worked in.

My father went on to do heavy equipment and worked road construction from about the time I was born until I was 11. And that point he

One of my best friends owns a decent-sized vessel and employs up to 20 people at peak.

I still visit every year or two and hang out with all da b'ys.

So I think I've got a pretty good understanding.



And yet they collect it... they even have special rules to allow them to collect it that aren't there to help other self-employed people in Canada. Literally their own EI program and special "regions" to get them EI easier and all it costs them is some pride and dignity.



Funny, never saw a single foreign worker in my hometown... saw lots in Corner Brook working in Tim Hortons, the malls, etc. They worked year-round for minimum wage because the people in my town wouldn't work those kinda jobs - why would they when they can just work 14 weeks a year and then suck out on the Tim Horton's employee who works year-round instead. All the same people every getting a call from the plant to get their 14 weeks of work once so they can get "top unemployment." After their 14 weeks were up, laid off, and someone else from the town brought in for their turn.

Never got to work with the plant? No worries, the provincial government gives out shitty little grants to each town so they can hire you to do nothing for 14 weeks so you can get your stamps. Why? Well because welfare is a provincial government responsibility so its cheaper for them to pay you min wage for 14 weeks so you can get EI, that way the poor bastard who left home and is working in Alberta can pay for your bread for the next 38 weeks instead of the provincial government.

It's a whole scheme that makes Tuk Tuk drivers from Thailand look like honest and astute entrepreneurs.



What's your point? They get paid for the work they do, when they do it. Plenty of people work in those industries year-round.



I'm not "making fun," I'm calling it out for what it is. If it hurts your feelings, that's the problem with the truth - it hurts.

Seasonal employment is a way of life in many/most resource based industries, especially at the coal face.

A lot of these industries probably wouldn't function without unemployment and that's just the reality of it.

I work for the railroad now and every year they hire a massive amount of manpower to deal with peak grain season here which ends around the end of December and only kicks off again around April.

Around end of December, a lot of the work dries up and # of trains coming in and out gets reduced by about 60%. Along with that all the elevators also lay their guys off and shut down for the season so there is no need for all the Yard jobs and they all get wrapped up as well.

All the low seniority guys end up getting furloughed and don't know when they will be recalled. The Company offers them opportunities to go work elsewhere but they don't have to accept it and many simply take the layoff and collect unemployment.

In April, they usually get recalled, some come back, many do not and the company begins the process of training a new batch. This has gone on since the beginning of time and will probably go on for as long as the industry exists.

The forestry industry is similar, especially in the extraction/harvesting sector of the industry. Mills are always operating but the harvesting side of the operation usually wraps up business when the frost and snow comes.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I grew up in an end-of-the-road outport community in Newfoundland. My great grandfather was a fisherman, my grandfather was a fisherman, and my father hauled nets in the mornings before he went to school growing up when the season overlapped and then fished in the summers growing up.

The community I grew up in has had one major employer since it came into existence, the fish plant, which every person in my family has worked in.

My father went on to do heavy equipment and worked road construction from about the time I was born until I was 11. And that point he

One of my best friends owns a decent-sized vessel and employs up to 20 people at peak.

I still visit every year or two and hang out with all da b'ys.

So I think I've got a pretty good understanding.



And yet they collect it... they even have special rules to allow them to collect it that aren't there to help other self-employed people in Canada. Literally their own EI program and special "regions" to get them EI easier and all it costs them is some pride and dignity.



Funny, never saw a single foreign worker in my hometown... saw lots in Corner Brook working in Tim Hortons, the malls, etc. They worked year-round for minimum wage because the people in my town wouldn't work those kinda jobs - why would they when they can just work 14 weeks a year and then suck out on the Tim Horton's employee who works year-round instead. All the same people every getting a call from the plant to get their 14 weeks of work once so they can get "top unemployment." After their 14 weeks were up, laid off, and someone else from the town brought in for their turn.

Never got to work with the plant? No worries, the provincial government gives out shitty little grants to each town so they can hire you to do nothing for 14 weeks so you can get your stamps. Why? Well because welfare is a provincial government responsibility so its cheaper for them to pay you min wage for 14 weeks so you can get EI, that way the poor bastard who left home and is working in Alberta can pay for your bread for the next 38 weeks instead of the provincial government.

It's a whole scheme that makes Tuk Tuk drivers from Thailand look like honest and astute entrepreneurs.



What's your point? They get paid for the work they do, when they do it. Plenty of people work in those industries year-round.



I'm not "making fun," I'm calling it out for what it is. If it hurts your feelings, that's the problem with the truth - it hurts.

If there was a greatest posts of the decade poll, this would be on it.

Have you ever thought of writing a blog or something ?

 

[Navy_Pete]

@Humphrey Bogart landscaping is the same, and construction slows down a lot as well. The guys I worked with used to switch over to snow removal and other winter seasonal work, but that was pretty sporadic, so they all also relied on EI, and there is a lot less winter seasonal jobs as well.

It is what it is I guess.

 

[Quirky]

Great thread on CAF reddit suggesting non-spec Cpls should be earning $90k.

Where is that popcorn...

I would at least shoot for $100k.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Great thread on CAF reddit suggesting non-spec Cpls should be earning $90k.

Where is that popcorn...

I would at least shoot for $100k.

It would, but after sitting on some promotion boards, outside the really small trades, there are people getting promoted to MCpl and beyond that don't seem to be good at their current rank, let alone suitable for promotion.

Encouraging soup sandwhiches to stick around won't help retention.

 

[Quirky]

You’d have to be really dedicated, or stupid, to stay in the CAF as a non-spec Cpl if you can make $90k civy side in your trade.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Great thread on CAF reddit suggesting non-spec Cpls should be earning $90k.

Where is that popcorn...

I would at least shoot for $100k.

Expectations would need to increase significantly if we were paying Non-spec Corporals $90k a year.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think we need to look for ways to compensate for level responsibility.

I've used this example before, the fact an LT(N) at RCSU Atlantic in Shearwater makes more than the Warehouse CPO2 at the Halifax Main Warehouse is a problem.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It would, but after sitting on some promotion boards, outside the really small trades, there are people getting promoted to MCpl and beyond that don't seem to be good at their current rank, let alone suitable for promotion.

Encouraging soup sandwhiches to stick around won't help retention.

On the flip side I know many of our small Naval trades have massively inflated PERs as anything less than right justified will sentence someone to the nether for years.

MARTECH is a good example. 2 feet and a heart beat and you can be CPO1 no problem. No need for french either. Just keep showing up.

I think if there was a way to look at ratios you'd find they are pretty equal.

 

[dimsum]

Expectations would need to increase significantly if we were paying Non-spec Corporals $90k a year.

I'd say at least HS, probably post-secondary required.

 

[Eaglelord17]

On the flip side I know many of our small Naval trades have massively inflated PERs as anything less than right justified will sentence someone to the nether for years.

MARTECH is a good example. 2 feet and a heart beat and you can be CPO1 no problem. No need for french either. Just keep showing up.

I think if there was a way to look at ratios you'd find they are pretty equal.

The other side of that is MARTECH provided the person is actually trained and competent should have the capability to work 4 different civilian trades and easily make over 100k a year civvy side.

 

[dapaterson]

I think we need to look for ways to compensate for level responsibility.

I've used this example before, the fact an LT(N) at RCSU Atlantic in Shearwater makes more than the Warehouse CPO2 at the Halifax Main Warehouse is a problem.

If the CAF abandoned the current compensation model, would you be willing to have your base pay reduced on posting because, while at the same rank level, the new position was considered to have less responsibility?

 

[Halifax Tar]

If the CAF abandoned the current compensation model, would you be willing to have your base pay reduced on posting because, while at the same rank level, the new position was considered to have less responsibility?

If I wanted to keep working in the CAF yup.

But instead of fiddling with base pays, make an allowance. Like SDA or LDA.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The other side of that is MARTECH provided the person is actually trained and competent should have the capability to work 4 different civilian trades and easily make over 100k a year civvy side.

Absolutely. I was referencing career advancement and not pay though.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Most of the “there are no civilian equivalent” aka “hard military trades” are operator trades. The folks who go out and conduct operations, domestically and internationally.

Why should they make less money at the same rank (roughly) than anyone else?

Thinking infantry, armour, flying NCMs, NES Ops.

We are starting to undervalue the skills these trades bring to the table “because college x/university Y” don’t have post-secondary education programs linked to the jobs. Education should not automatically qualify Mil trades for more pay.