Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[dimsum]

I was reading about someone who has knowledge of how Australia apparently handles these types of pay and benefits for their military, a bump for everyone regardless of rank and a pay raise to keep up with inflation. Why does every benefit we have, have caveats or otherwise strings attached to keep everybody so frigging unhappy.

Except that you’d think their attrition would be low, which it isn’t.

Now, I don’t know if other factors (work culture, base location, etc) are the reasons pushing them out the door.

I’m a regular reader of the Australian military subreddit and while it’s not as busy as the CAF one, there are definitely people griping about pay and benefits there.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Generally in a vertical hierarchy (i.e. any other employer) you get paid more the higher your rank in the organization.

You generally achieve higher rank and status by investing time and energy in to the organization.

When I left the CAF, I was on an apprentice wage in my new career until I was certified. As soon as I was certified, my pay tripled overnight.

It's called putting in your time and earning your keep.

The CAF literally took money out of the pockets of skilled workers and redistributed it to unskilled workers. Workers that are also unproven, it's asinine

Equality of opportunity V Equality of outcome ?

 

[Kilted]

What did they say in the power point, equitable is not equal.

All animals are equal, some are more equal than others.

 

[Stoker]

Received several emails this morning asking how my pers are taking the news of the new benefit especially in regards to people talking about moving on. I also noticed on several trade face book pages different posts about getting civilian qualifications and one advertising FMF Cape Breton out west looking for workers. It appears that the leadership at the top of my trade is very nervous on potentially losing people in an extremely red trade.

 

[lenaitch]

Equality of opportunity V Equality of outcome ?

When you have more than one pet, it's equity vs fairness. They understand the latter but not the former. So long they each get a treat, they don't care if one's treat is bigger than the other's .

 

[Good2Golf]

That's child's play my friend. That gets you a shoe box in Esquimalt

Shoe box?

Luxury!!!

 

[PuckChaser]

Ah... So, things sucked in Pet, screw Edmonton. No wonder the CAF is beating potential recruits away with a stick...

The troops collecting PLD aren't responsible for the CAF's inability to manage PLD, but they will be the ones to suffer.

Guess what, everyone is losing PLD at higher ranks. Sorry that I'm not sad for them.

What you're missing is that Edmonton isn't this pinnacle of extreme cost for housing anymore. This system also has baked in annual adjustments by a third party, so it's already infinitely better than the old one. Maybe the numbers flip next year, who knows?

 

[dapaterson]

Authority to adjust the rates has been delegated from Treasury Board to the TB Secretariat, which should mean that the adjustments will be more regular.

Having a simple model for the third party to adjust should also facilitate the updates.

 

[Staff Weenie]

Shoe box?

Luxury!!!

The Four Yorkshiremen enter the chat!

Come to think of it.... that is a perfect analogy for mess conversations with a group of Senior Officers or Chiefs.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Received several emails this morning asking how my pers are taking the news of the new benefit especially in regards to people talking about moving on. I also noticed on several trade face book pages different posts about getting civilian qualifications and one advertising FMF Cape Breton out west looking for workers. It appears that the leadership at the top of my trade is very nervous on potentially losing people in an extremely red trade.

 

[KTown Cowboy]

I don't know if this would help us, but it's a decent read and something to think about when it comes to situations like this:

https://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/259/290/402/305/thomas2.pdf

 

[Quirky]

Edmonton deserved PLD when it first came out. Edmonton doesn't need PLD anymore when you compare other markets. Cold Lake got a small fraction of what Edmonton got even though the markets were the same, that wasn't fair. Troops losing money after all this isn't right.

The CAF literally took money out of the pockets of skilled workers and redistributed it to unskilled workers. Workers that are also unproven, it's asinine

'A level' and aircraft releaser for 15+ years combined and the CAF puts my skills and experience at 8% more value over someone stocking socks and shirts. Time to re-muster to MMT and take the small paycut so I don't have to deal with the headache and responsibility of releasing dozens of aircraft every week. MMT probably has better civilian job prospects than AME anyway.

Utter stupidity.

 

[Remius]

I’ve always thought retention bonuses for experienced skilled tradesmen in the CAF a should be a thing. Put a minimum time to qualify on it and make attractive enough for people to take it. From a cost/benefit perspective even something as high as 50 to 100k at say the 12 year mark (ie timed with your CD) would still be a net cost saving over the long term.

 

[Furniture]

Guess what, everyone is losing PLD at higher ranks. Sorry that I'm not sad for them.

What you're missing is that Edmonton isn't this pinnacle of extreme cost for housing anymore. This system also has baked in annual adjustments by a third party, so it's already infinitely better than the old one. Maybe the numbers flip next year, who knows?

I'm not missing that at all, what you seem to be missing is that come Jul 1, some people will be getting extra money to compensate for the rising cost of living, others will gain nothing, or lose.

The people coming out with more money will be happy(Pet), the people gaining little, or losing will not be happy(Edm). The people who won't be happy are concentrated in a single geographic location, meaning that even if only a few dozen get out, their impact will be far larger than a few dozen getting out across the CAF.

'A level' and aircraft releaser for 15+ years combined and the CAF puts my skills and experience at 8% more value over someone stocking socks and shirts. Time to re-muster to MMT and take the small paycut so I don't have to deal with the headache and responsibility of releasing dozens of aircraft every week. MMT probably has better civilian job prospects than AME anyway.

Utter stupidity.

This kind of attitude is why nobody is shedding tears for the Sepc 1 folks pay coming closer to standard pay.

Nothing get's people on board like denigrating other occupations, when you clearly know nothing about them.

 

[Quirky]

I’ve always thought retention bonuses for experienced skilled tradesmen in the CAF a should be a thing. Put a minimum time to qualify on it and make attractive enough for people to take it. From a cost/benefit perspective even something as high as 50 to 100k at say the 12 year mark (ie timed with your CD) would still be a net cost saving over the long term.

I always wanted a skill and qual based pay structure in the skills trades that tops you up for more responsibility. Right now there is no incentive to run around and fix problems (aircraft) when you can make the same cleaning floors and holding down the tool control section.

This kind of attitude is why nobody is shedding tears for the Sepc 1 folks pay coming closer to standard pay.

Nothing get's people on board like denigrating other occupations, when you clearly know nothing about them.

Supply isn't in the same league of responsibility and accountability as spec 1 trades. Not even close. Not 8% close.

 

[Furniture]

Supply isn't in the same league of responsibility and accountability as spec 1 trades. Not even close. Not 8% close.

Based on your experience as a MMT?

Spec trades aren't the only ones with responsibilities. Playing that game just turns into a back and forth of "I'm more important than you", which goes nowhere.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Based on your experience as a MMT?

Spec trades aren't the only ones with responsibilities. Playing that game just turns into a back and forth of "I'm more important than you", which goes nowhere.

A clearly articulated corporate HR strategy, complete with risks and priorities related to 'mission achievement', would go a long way to explaining the relative importance of various occupations, and how that is reflected in career management and compensation packages.

If there was a corporate HR strategy in the CAF...

 

[Remius]

I always wanted a skill and qual based pay structure in the skills trades that tops you up for more responsibility. Right now there is no incentive to run around and fix problems (aircraft) when you can make the same cleaning floors and holding down the tool control section.

The current pay system certainly does not account for it, agreed. I have Cpls that want nothing to do with progressing.

Supply isn't in the same league of responsibility and accountability as spec 1 trades. Not even close. Not 8% close.

I would disagree with that one based on my limited experiences in the supply world. Responsibility and a especially accountability is definitely a thing. Ever had your name attached to an SCA? That can keep a person up at a night.

 

[Quirky]

Based on your experience as a MMT?

Spec trades aren't the only ones with responsibilities. Playing that game just turns into a back and forth of "I'm more important than you", which goes nowhere.

It's not about importance, it's about accepting differing kinds of risk. The accepted risks and actions, or inactions, of standard vs spec trades is where the difference in pay is. Will an MMT ever have to explain themselves to a BOI for their actions that brought an aircraft down?

It's like paying the auto techs at a dealership only 8% more than the part bin rats. No one will want to fix your car. Luckily there is still an air tech trade pay review ongoing to widen that standard/spec 1 gap, as it should be.

 

[Remius]

It's not about importance, it's about accepting differing kinds of risk. The accepted risks and actions, or inactions, of standard vs spec trades is where the difference in pay is. Will an MMT ever have to explain themselves to a BOI for their actions that brought an aircraft down?

It's like paying the auto techs at a dealership only 8% more than the part bin rats. No one will want to fix your car. Luckily there is still an air tech trade pay review ongoing to widen that standard/spec 1 gap, as it should be.

I’m not sure why you thought my post was funny about supply. If you think all they do is bin rat stuff then I would say you have no idea what you are talking about. I’m not saying they should be spec pay types but they play a far greater role than you give them credit for in that trade.