Another Liberal campaign promise ...

[bossi]

PM's brigade for peace imperils navy, air force
Defence's doomsday scenario sees scrapping three destroyers and a quarter of CF-18 jets 
Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service; With files from Times Colonist
Saturday, August 21, 2004


OTTAWA -- The Canadian Armed Forces are considering scrapping navy destroyers and air force fighter jets to pay for what they believe was an ill-considered campaign promise by Prime Minister Paul Martin to create a new brigade of 5,000 peacekeepers, the Ottawa Citizen reports.

Senior Defence Department planners presented Defence Minister Bill Graham with a doomsday scenario this week that called for grounding one-quarter of Canada's CF-18 fighter jets and mothballing the navy's three active destroyers.

Senior military officials say they have no choice because Martin has not earmarked new money for the Forces. Without making massive internal cuts, the military has no way of following the prime minister's orders to implement his campaign promise to create a new brigade of 5,000 soldiers devoted specifically to peacekeeping.

The military was caught off-guard by the pledge, which they believe Martin hastily made in the heat of fighting for his political life in June against a Conservative surge in the federal election.

One senior military official, speaking on condition on anonymity, said Forces leaders are worried they "are going to be perceived as being in bed with this cockamamie idea" of creating a new brigade of peacekeepers.

Martin is forcing the military "to come up with outrageous options to satisfy an election promise that came from nowhere," said the official.

Forces officers spoke up, albeit anonymously, because they are disillusioned with Martin, who campaigned for the Liberal leadership last year and went to the polls this year on a platform that called for restoring Canada as a credible player on the world stage, in part by boosting the Forces. They also don't want to be blamed in the future by the Prime Minister's Office -- or the public -- for being the architects of a plan that led to the demise of the navy and air force.

Martin backed away from conducting a broad review of Canada's defence policy, as he promised when he was sworn in as prime minister in December. Graham announced last month that there would be no formal defence policy review, just an "in-house" examination that would have no public consultation.

Defence analysts say Martin's actions show he is not interested in revitalizing the Forces, and that he will be hard-pressed to elevate Canada's stature internationally if he does not have a credible military to use as a foreign-policy tool.

"The government doesn't seem to want defence as an issue in the future," said Alain Pellerin, the executive director of the Conference of Defence Associations, the military's largest lobby group. "It's disappointing to see how it all turned out because there have been so many promises."

Graham is to present Martin with the military's new plan at a cabinet meeting next week in Ottawa.

Defence officials say the Forces are already running a $1-billion annual deficit to pay for current operations. Adding a new brigade would cost $2.5 billion in startup costs, and an additional $400 million to $500 million a year to sustain.

With no additional money, the new brigade has to be financed out of the current $13-billion annual budget.

York University defence analyst Martin Shadwick said the government should conduct full public consultations before contemplating such drastic changes to the military.

The plan to ground 20 of Canada's 80 CF-18 fighter jets will not sit well with the United States, which expects Canada to make a meaningful contribution to North American air defences following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said Shadwick.

Getting rid of the navy's destroyers would also mean Canada could never again command a multinational naval force, as it has done in the Persian Gulf, he said.

Destroyers are equipped with an extensive communications network capable of playing a "command and control platform" role in a task force, mostly co-ordinating activities for all ships in the group. Esquimalt-based HMCS Algonquin served such a role in 2002 in the Arabian Sea during Operation Apollo.

Lt.-Cmdr. Hubert Genest, spokesman for the navy in Esquimalt, said the decision to scrap destroyers rests solely with government. "We don't have much comment," he said. "As you know, these are political decisions."

In addition to the Algonquin, the Pacific Fleet has another destroyer tied up. HMCS Huron is likely to be decommissioned and sold for scrap, Genest said. Two other destroyers sail out of Halifax.

The Algonquin, now with 30 years service, recently returned to Esquimalt from exercises off Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. The warship, which can carry two of the aging Sea King combat helicopters now set to be replaced, underwent a $24-million refit a couple of years ago.

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2004

 

[Cloud Cover]

Canadians are getting the types of government decisions they deserve for keeping the Liberals in power. The above changes represent a possible shift in military policy by stealth, and it is of such signifcant magnitide the CF may never recover. This is just more evidence that the leading ruling party   establishment is decisively under the influence of a community of misguided academics who harbour plans for some sort of utopian constabulary role for the CF. I urge any reader here to take a close look at documents of the Polaris institute or Project Ploughshares, and draw your own conclusions as to where the CF is going. Incidentally, Mr. Graham, who is a bit of a left wing academic himself, is generally held in good stead by those 2 groups. And now, he is the MND ... the process has begun.
 
This country is supposed to be at war with terrorism, yet the government seems to be waging a war with the CF instead of those who have the means and intentions of attacking our citizens at home and overseas.        

 

[canuck101]

Save your money for the next couple years and move to Australia at least they have a plan that they are following.This liberal gov has one thing on there mind how to fool the Canadian people into voting them in again and again and again.  It is all about health care.  Well if we don't have a armed forces to protect the country we will not have any money for health care since Canada would not exist. :threat:

 

[George Wallace]

......This liberal gov has one thing on there mind how to fool the Canadian people into voting them in again and again and again. It is all about health care.... :threat:

Damn!   You had to mention that catch phrase "Health care".   The Liberals have used that to stop sheeple from asking for more in every instance.   Funny how we can't spend tax dollars on anything without it meaning a cut to what we expect from Health Care,   : but our Health Care is failing us.     :threat: :threat:   I have to go take a cold shower now....

GW

 

[Bert]

An interesting article.

Assuming the government intends on providing "a new brigade of 5,000 peacekeepers", likely the PM/Cabinet
will be given several scenarios of how this addition could be funded and created.  It may be that the
journalist who wrote the original article is focusing on one scenario without stating what the other
(if hes knows, if they exist, if the journalist is being milding sensationalistic) scenarios are.  

However, the Liberals have an established track record on campaigne promises and neglect of the military
infrastructure. I guess the result will be also interesting.

Given the total tax and other revenue the Federal and Provincial governments acquire, how much is it
really to keep Canada's social and government infrastructure going?

From the end of WW2, Canada has built cities, transportation routes, communication systems, created
social management of education, resources, national defence, etc.  Today, the money needed to
maintain all of this has increased to the point where 0 balance budgets, funding cuts, and service/social
minimizations are common.  The cost of health care, education, the military, and basic services has
increased.  Is this a case of need outweighting services we can afford as a nation, inflation, simple
mismanagement since WW2?  Will the Canada Pension Plan still be there in thirty years?

Canada's debt.  I tried searching on the 'net for information on the national debt.  From my
understanding (and I couldn't find anything in clear terms), our national debt is still increasing
despite deficit management, the GST, and government payments.  So if the government has
a finite source of money, the debt is increasing, what can we afford to do as a country?
Given information from the news, it seems everything is becoming unaffordable.
How much money as a piece of a pie goes to each allocation like the military?

As much as I personally want to see a strong military and manageable secure social net, what
can or is the Government(s) doing in the long term?  Are we forced to "take from Peter
to pay Mary" and expect long-tern chronic cut-backs like the military in the last few decades, given
the Governments total tax and other revenue?

 

[Cloud Cover]

Hey Bert. Good post..a couple of comments.

WTR debt, you are indeed correct, as a dollar value, the debt is increasing marginally despite recent small paydowns, however, the debt to GDP ratio is declining, and that is the more critical indicator, at least that's what are told by those who make global studies   of catastrophic failures in government fiscal management. The debt to GDP ratio will continue to improve as the economy grows, and with that growth there is room for extra government spending.  

It has been long standing practice for the MND to bring before cabinet several options with respect to major events of DND related items, however there are rising indicators that auger strongly for a persuasive argument to be made that a non-standard process is in use for this particular policy decision. Do not forget, this commitment arose out of the PMO, and not out of any sound decision making process. MND Graham will not have to sell this to the troops, that task lies with Mr. Elcock, and given his background and recent history, he is admired within the government for being a   master of spin in awkward situations.

Other countries, particularly Nordic countries, have strong militaries, even in their present much diminshed form, and maintain excellent social programs that easily surpass our own. Mind you, they all have very strong transparency and democratic accountability legislation, some of which are even constitutional principals, such as Sweden.   Canada's freedom of information laws are a joke, and getting worse notwithstanding the good work done by the auditor general. Citizens don't have anywhere near the right of access that the AG has, nor should they, but what we have is a despicable pittance of "what should be."   There is little lee-way in those countries to facilitate the massive inefficiency and bureaucratic self preservation that Canadian policy makers are gaining a global reputation for.

I recognize that may be an apples to oranges argument, since there are many characteristics one may rely upon whch to distinguish the reality of Canada from other nations. [geographic scale, economic scale, number of principal trading partners, relatively homogenous populations and lack thereof, the sad history of European battlefields, regional tensions, and many more]. Nevertheless, the model discussed in the article is just too important to be left to the Cabinet of a minority government which lacks a mandate to partially dismantle the armed forces in order to fulfill an irresponsible campaign promise.      

 

[atticus]

Damn!   You had to mention that catch phrase "Health care".   The Liberals have used that to stop sheeple from asking for more in every instance.   Funny how we can't spend tax dollars on anything without it meaning a cut to what we expect from Health Care,   : but our Health Care is failing us.     :threat: :threat:   I have to go take a cold shower now....

GW

Currently working in a hospital and having a sister who is directly working in the health care field I can say money is being wasted in the hospitals. Nurses take hour long breaks and get paid for it, you rarely see somebody in a hurry even if their is a code blue (cardiac arrest). You see multiple people doing the job that one person could do. New equipment is always comming in while the old equipment sits in running order being kept up to date (I can say hundreds of dollars are being spent keeping equipment up to date that isn't even used). There are honestly people there that I have no idea what they do, they basicly stand and complain that they aren't being paid enough and on their nametag it either says that they are a Nurse or that they are "environmental services". The fiberals say that more money needs to be spent on health care to shorten waiting times. Last time I was in emergency all I could see the nurses doing is walking around and taking coffee breaks, god forbid they hurry. You ask me, waiting times are the cause of a lazy staff, not a shortage of money.  Paul Martin makes me sick. He's proud of a victory in which nobody voted. It was the second lowest voter turnout since confederation. If I won that way, I'd be sick. If the CF has to hurt the navy and the airforce to make this new brigade I just don't think its worth it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

hey if were getting rid of some of our destroyers that means less new paper helicopters.
Thats saving money right there!

god what are these people thinking, i don't know wether to laugh or cry.

 

[canuck101]

well we have to wait till October to see if the Conservative party can put some heat on the liberals lack of money and broken promises. Keeping fingers crossed hoping that the minority government does not last two years or longer. forget about creating a new brigade we need new soldiers for the brigades that we already have which are undermaned.

the liberals are also thinking of moving the new site of NDHQ from the old JDS site in Kanata to site in Orleans where there is a liberal seat. Since the old MND did not hold on to his seat.  The only site for them in Orleans is the Orleans mall where the RCMP are moving a couple hundred officers into the old Eaton's store... That would be all that the military would need. People from other countries asking where our headquarters are and we say you are looking at it. Its in a mall. :threat: :threat: :threat: