Anti-terrorism squads raid Ottawa homes
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Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
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Power, is all too often abused or corrupted. As was clearly demonstrated by one of the moderators here the other day.
This is a war that seems to have no face and no terriory, and no end in sight. I think that many law-abiding cizitens are becoming concerned. Where does this new power being and where does it end? How much is too little, and how much is too much?
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You and your buddies will be a lot more concerned when the baddies start blowing things up in Canada and people like you get a thank you card from AQ because you basically ham-strung the police, military and intelligence services with your stupid whining.
You think police abuse their powers here? Try going to some of the places in the middle east where the state is Muslim, check the rules out there bud!
Or better yet just go and don‘t come back. Because if you think Canadian police are bad you don‘t get around much!
I have zero sympathy for you. If your friends are law abiding citizens then they have nothing to worry about.Usually its the people who are doing something wrong that whine about the cops the loudest!
Slim
Ex-Canadian Army Intelligence
You think police abuse their powers here? Try going to some of the places in the middle east where the state is Muslim, check the rules out there bud!
Or better yet just go and don‘t come back. Because if you think Canadian police are bad you don‘t get around much!
I have zero sympathy for you. If your friends are law abiding citizens then they have nothing to worry about.Usually its the people who are doing something wrong that whine about the cops the loudest!
Slim
Ex-Canadian Army Intelligence
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
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No, I don‘t think police abuse their powers here. Not yet anyway. I am concerned that with these increased powers, Canada will end up like one of those countries in the middle east given enough time. Give the government and inch, and they will take a mile.
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Well if that inch saves just one Canadian life than go to it. If they wish to "tap my phone,go through my garbage, follow me to my place of worship, etc." then thats a very small price to pay when compared to what some have lost.
Tartboy, you really need to put your well-being on the line before you can make the statements you do.
Tartboy, you really need to put your well-being on the line before you can make the statements you do.
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
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Well, I am not sure I understand that. But maybe you are correct. Please explain to my why I need to put my well being on the line, before I am allowed to question the actions of the government.
The police and the soliders execute government policy, they do not write them. So if you are getting the impression that I am attacking and questioning the police and soldiers themselves, I am not. I am questioning the people who write the policies they are executing.
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I‘ll explain,it‘s called perspective.Most of the people on this board earned thiers, they were‘nt handed it by someone. As it stands right now your perspective is the one you‘ve been handed.
Stop school, join up now and try a "peace-keeping" mission and then come back and argue.
Stop school, join up now and try a "peace-keeping" mission and then come back and argue.
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Well said, Bruce...
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
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Ok Bruce, I will take you up on that.
However, I will say this: My unique education has given me a perspective that few people get to see or understand. The opportunity to achieve that perspective may have been handed to me, but I worked my *** off to achieve it.
This perspective is no less valuable than yours, so believe me, I have earned the right to have my own opinion.
When I combine my current perspective with your ‘new‘ perspective, you still may not like what I have to say. So, just to forewarn you, don‘t get all upset and whine when I say things you don‘t like.
But until I am standing in BMQ, I will still exercise my civil right to argue and question the government!
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BINGO!
Why should law abiding citizens be concered?
Let‘s see... I own more than 10 guns but even though I am a law abiding citizen the police can legally walk into my house at any time without a warrent under the new firearms laws.
A friend I grew up with was taken into custody, strip searched and denied access to his family, he is a law abiding citizen who was out gopher hunting legally and a "concerned citizen" called police.
It‘s all fine and dandy if your not the one it‘s happening to.
It‘s also a very hard line to draw when you want to prevent a crime from happening. Somtimes doing somthing, is going to far, and other times it is not enough.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Hey pieman, tell me if this sounds familiar.
"I am unware of one single case of that happening in Canada. IF you cannot show me, please do not make things up to support your claim."
You say you have a uniuque education. (Unique meaning one of a kind?). Thats fine i respect where your comming from regarding privacy issues but don‘t bring it up on the forum then. Unless your ready to back it up or tell people what it is no one is going to give it the slighest thought.
I think that moderator was doing you a favor and telling you to slow down, the same way you give a child a time out.
Before slapping them of course
You have the right to an opinion of course but think a little. Your comming to a military forum talking to soldiers who‘ve spent their lives defending canadian interests, even if they dont always agree with it. I wouldn‘t be surprised if some of these guys have served longer than you‘ve been alive. If you have such a beef with the goverment t don‘t join man. Once you do you won‘t be in a real position to do anything about it. If you want to fight the government become a politician.
"I am unware of one single case of that happening in Canada. IF you cannot show me, please do not make things up to support your claim."
You say you have a uniuque education. (Unique meaning one of a kind?). Thats fine i respect where your comming from regarding privacy issues but don‘t bring it up on the forum then. Unless your ready to back it up or tell people what it is no one is going to give it the slighest thought.
I think that moderator was doing you a favor and telling you to slow down, the same way you give a child a time out.
Before slapping them of course
You have the right to an opinion of course but think a little. Your comming to a military forum talking to soldiers who‘ve spent their lives defending canadian interests, even if they dont always agree with it. I wouldn‘t be surprised if some of these guys have served longer than you‘ve been alive. If you have such a beef with the goverment t don‘t join man. Once you do you won‘t be in a real position to do anything about it. If you want to fight the government become a politician.
xFusilier
Full Member
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I can tell you I‘ve been to societies which can be defined as "free" and I have been to societies that can be defined as "safe". There are no "free", "safe" societies. Having lived in Syria, I would define Syria as a very safe place in terms of law and order issues, wouldn‘t call it a very free place though.
As for the logic that those that aren‘t doing anything wrong have nothing to fear. I‘m sorry but people like Donald Marshall, Guy-Paul Morin and Stephen Truscott have shot that arguement to heck.
The reason law abiding citezens have concerns over increased police powers is for the simple fact that yes, the police do get it wrong, and yes the police have abused their authority, and yes the police even break the law from time to time. So when I hear the argument "We‘re the police trust us" I tend to get skeptical really quick
As far as I can see the police already have enough powers to do their job, perhaps it takes more time to get a warrant, to illustrate RPG‘s to a judge but those steps exist to protect you and me. Besides the police can tap your phone, raid your garbage and follow you around, they simply have to obtain a warrant in the first to instances to do it. Anyhow from what I read in the article the police acted within the letter of the law, so why are we debating extraordinary police powers anyways?
As for the logic that those that aren‘t doing anything wrong have nothing to fear. I‘m sorry but people like Donald Marshall, Guy-Paul Morin and Stephen Truscott have shot that arguement to heck.
The reason law abiding citezens have concerns over increased police powers is for the simple fact that yes, the police do get it wrong, and yes the police have abused their authority, and yes the police even break the law from time to time. So when I hear the argument "We‘re the police trust us" I tend to get skeptical really quick
As far as I can see the police already have enough powers to do their job, perhaps it takes more time to get a warrant, to illustrate RPG‘s to a judge but those steps exist to protect you and me. Besides the police can tap your phone, raid your garbage and follow you around, they simply have to obtain a warrant in the first to instances to do it. Anyhow from what I read in the article the police acted within the letter of the law, so why are we debating extraordinary police powers anyways?
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Pieman,
You are throwing us a swerve here.[studying law, by chance?] You have the right to question the govt. all you want. Many of us here have done and will continue to do so. That is one of the many number of great things about this country of ours.
What brought you to the ire of so many of us was the ridiculous accusations that you were making, not your govt. stance.
Lets go back on topic as far as your concerned. I don‘t know Slim, but many people on here do, and no one has ever questioned that he is what he says he is. Were as you have beaten that several times just in this thread, so here‘s a proposal, you stated you could‘nt prove these accusations on an open forum, so send Slim a PM and make arrangements to prove these things to him. He then could come here and confirm for us that you are not full of it. If you wish to have any credibility here this sounds like a simple way to get it.
Slim, I hope you don‘t mind me volunteering you but you are the guy. Thanks Bruce
You are throwing us a swerve here.[studying law, by chance?] You have the right to question the govt. all you want. Many of us here have done and will continue to do so. That is one of the many number of great things about this country of ours.
What brought you to the ire of so many of us was the ridiculous accusations that you were making, not your govt. stance.
Lets go back on topic as far as your concerned. I don‘t know Slim, but many people on here do, and no one has ever questioned that he is what he says he is. Were as you have beaten that several times just in this thread, so here‘s a proposal, you stated you could‘nt prove these accusations on an open forum, so send Slim a PM and make arrangements to prove these things to him. He then could come here and confirm for us that you are not full of it. If you wish to have any credibility here this sounds like a simple way to get it.
Slim, I hope you don‘t mind me volunteering you but you are the guy. Thanks Bruce
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Farmboy
The ten guns you own, are they all registered? If not than your not a law-abiding citizen. I don‘t want to get into the gun law registry cause yes they screwed it up horribly. But I register my dogs, cats, kids, cars,etc. Just something to think about, my mechanic can sieze my car if he deems it unsafe but your guns don‘t need to meet this criteria?
Xfusilier,
The people you refered to probably would‘nt have been convicted [a] if the police had more freedom
had the tests we have today
[c]were‘nt shafted by racial mindsets
[d]small-town cops had the resources they can get today
Therefore those names ,for the most part, don"t go with todays police style.
The ten guns you own, are they all registered? If not than your not a law-abiding citizen. I don‘t want to get into the gun law registry cause yes they screwed it up horribly. But I register my dogs, cats, kids, cars,etc. Just something to think about, my mechanic can sieze my car if he deems it unsafe but your guns don‘t need to meet this criteria?
Xfusilier,
The people you refered to probably would‘nt have been convicted [a] if the police had more freedom
had the tests we have today
[c]were‘nt shafted by racial mindsets
[d]small-town cops had the resources they can get today
Therefore those names ,for the most part, don"t go with todays police style.
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
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No Bruce, I stated that I could not prove these things on a forum, not just an open forum. It is a logistical thing. How can I show to you a tap on a phone over a computer? Private or open forum.
If you have some idea on how to do that, then we can talk about it.
Like I stated for that particular point, I cannot support it any futher. However, make note that I made many other points which seemed to be unpopular here.
A Lawyer!? God no! Scientist all the way!
Ok, I am a little suprised you said that. On my side of the argument, I am saying that the new powers issued to police are potentially dangerous because of the potential for the abuse of power.
Now, you are saying the police need a lot more powers to prevent abuse from happening in the first place? Am I correct in that interpritation? What is the logic here? If you make it legel for police to torture people, then it is not an abuse of power when they do?
The other points you made there seem fair enough in my opinion. It is pretty easy to see how those would be a problem for law enforcement.
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