Anti-terrorism squads raid Ottawa homes

[Pieman]

Your comming to a military forum talking to soldiers who‘ve spent their lives defending canadian interests, even if they dont always agree with it. I wouldn‘t be surprised if some of these guys have served longer than you‘ve been alive. If you have such a beef with the goverment t don‘t join man. Once you do you won‘t be in a real position to do anything about it. If you want to fight the government become a politician.

Actually, don‘t get me wrong. I don‘t have such a beef with the government. As I said before, I am very concerned about the changes in laws that have been happening since 9/11, and these recent raids and spying on civilians is a sparking my concern.

I have travelled a lot around the world, and I do believe in this country and it‘s people, more than ever!

I am on this forum for two reasons:
First, I want to do my part and serve my country. So I have signed up.

Second, I am trying very hard to understand the mentality of the soldier. I am trying to understand how you guys think. So far, I have discovered that most of you are very defensive about things (like the government) but if you push hard enough, your real thoughts start to come out.

BTW, that last post was nice Ghost. I hope you do more like that.

 

[Farmboy]

Farmboy
The ten guns you own, are they all registered? If not than your not a law-abiding citizen

Yes, unfortunately they are registered, but think of how many "crimminals" there are now just by instituting a new law, on law abiding Canadians.

But I register my dogs, cats, kids, cars,etc.

1. Ask they jews how they felt about being registered.

2. Your dog can act alone, my gun cannot get up and shoot someone by itself. My gun is locked in a safe, is your dog?

3. Just because you are registering these things does not mean it‘s ok or right.

my mechanic can sieze my car if he deems it unsafe

The police can seize my guns if I do some thing unsafe, they don‘t need to be registered for this to happen.

but your guns don‘t need to meet this criteria?

I myself have met the criteria by getting a firearms licence, why do my guns have to?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Well everyone of those arguements was absolutley stupid. Though at least the dog analogy was‘nt too bad. But lets see here, we should‘nt bother getting get drivers licences, should‘nt bother with stupid things like birth cert. ,passports.. and the Jewish thing...man that was a severely stupid comparison, not to mention insulting to a lot of people...
Good thing you have a nice soul.... CHEERS

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Pieman.....????????
If I can understand that garbulated answer, I said the police need more freedom to conduct investigations, how did torture come into this? You definetly are a master at swerving things away from yourself.
I‘m just wondering why you won‘t take Slim up on the offer I made[without his consent,nice]. Surely you can explain things like what the ‘tap‘ looks like,the software clicking noise, etc....
OK I‘ve been up all night I‘m going to bed. :boring:

 

[Farmboy]

Well everyone of those arguements was absolutley stupid

That‘s a great way to have a discussion! I find people say stuff like that or scream racist ect. when they have no argument in their favour.

and the Jewish thing...man that was a severely stupid comparison, not to mention insulting to a lot of people...

WHAT! The nazis first registered and took away their guns and then did the same to the people.

And don‘t say it can‘t happen here, do you think they thought it could happen to them?

 

[Pieman]

Bruce,

I was using torture as an illustrative example. You said the police need more freedom to do their job, how much freedom do you mean? Torture has been proven to be a great way to extract information from someone. Why not use that?

If you reread my post, you will see that I am willing to take your offer up on ‘proving‘ the wire tap to slim. But I still do not think it is possible for me to do that by writing. Since I am a ‘Master at swerving things away from myself‘ then how can you be sure I will not trick slim with my fancy talk?

However, if slim feels there is a way to prove there is a tap on the line that can be conveyed via private message, then let us try it.

I think I have said everything I had to say with regards to this thread. I seem to be repeating the same points over and over. So unless someone wants me to comment further with regards to this topic, I will end my part of the discussion here.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks pieman, you have a good soul too.
I kinda think your in a cult by the sounds of it though Only half a dozen people graduated int he world, and you call your self a scientist eh? hummmmmm

To even begin to understand how soldiers think you gotta be one, no ways around it really. Atleast if your keen on joining up so good luck


I like that dog analogy myself, lots of people being attacked by dogs lately.

I have a dozen guns and i will not register them.

a. I‘m not giving computer smart criminals a shopping list
b. All the top guys in law enforcement have said the registry system will not work.
c. Government has already wasted 2 billion dollars, i pay taxes why should i give them even more money to waste. Another salary raise int he parliment?
d. Criminals won‘t register their guns.

 

[Infanteer]

As was clearly demonstrated by one of the moderators here the other day.

Keep it up, Pieboy. The bus is leaving.

As for the logic that those that aren‘t doing anything wrong have nothing to fear. I‘m sorry but people like Donald Marshall, Guy-Paul Morin and Stephen Truscott have shot that arguement to heck.

Those are exceptions to the rule. How many murderers and rapists have been put away in the same time?
People constantly cite examples of systems where abuse of authority is the norm. That is not the case in Canada, and if you feel so, I challenge you to prove it.

I have full confidence in the system of policing in Canada. Look at the FLQ crisis, did we slide into a police-state after that (Although with Trudeau, some would wish we did).

Overseas, we conducted many missions that were completely invasive of the average Bosnians privacy. Most soldiers were uneasy with doing this (I can remember what I felt going through some ladies clothing drawers as she watched on) Quit trying to portray police as a salivating dog, just waiting to be unleashed at your rights and freedoms (which they uphold anyways).

WHAT! The nazis first registered and took away their guns and then did the same to the people.
And don‘t say it can‘t happen here, do you think they thought it could happen to them?

Sure, if a government that openly preached anti-semitism was elected in Canada. I‘m open to "what-ifs", but trust me, thats WAY down my list.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Pieman the only thing unique about you is your full of crap...you make a claim like that you should back it up!

Oh wait these forums have quite a few people that are full of it so I guess there is nothing special about you after all!

 

[xFusilier]

Donald Marshall, Guy Paul Morin and Steven Truscott go to prove the fact that miscarrigages of justice do happen. I have not portrayed the police as salivating dogs, they are, in fact, necessary to the maintenance of the rule of law. Nor, did I state that abuse of authority is rampant. That being said anyone who does not believe that some individual police officers do overstep the bounds of their authority, or break the law is living in a dream world.

What I am saying is that there is a balance to be struck between the obligation of the state to protect its citizens and maintain social order and the need to protect the rights of citizens. I believe that balance has been struck quite well. What the cases I quoted serve to demonstrate is the fallacy of a blanket statement that those who are not breaking the law have nothing to fear from increased police powers.

Certainly we did not slide into a police state after the invocation of the War Measures Act in 1970. I‘m sure if you look you will find instances were extrodinary powers were used by the police in 1970 to deal with situations that had nothing to do with the FLQ. In fact the War Measures Act was repealed and replaced with the Emergancies Act to specifically limit the extraordinary powers that were given to the authorities in an emergancy.

There is also a very clear distinction to be made between an environment such as post-war Bosnia and Canada. What I am saying is that the reasonable restrictions on police powers exist for a reason, they protect your, and my liberties. I have yet to see anyone post in regards to what tools they believe the police are lacking in regards to the tools they have to do their job.

 

[devil39]

Originally posted by Ghost778:
[qb]

I have a dozen guns and i will not register them.

a. I‘m not giving computer smart criminals a shopping list
b. All the top guys in law enforcement have said the registry system will not work.
c. Government has already wasted 2 billion dollars, i pay taxes why should i give them even more money to waste. Another salary raise int he parliment?
d. Criminals won‘t register their guns. [/qb]

Ghost,

Likely not something you want to advertise.

I register because we, as soldiers, are in a position of trust in this country. I am assuming that you are indeed a soldier.

If you cannot be trusted to follow the laws of the land, what other ethics, values, duties and criminal code issues will you choose to apply or accept, only as you see fit? We are not talking about the occasional speeding ticket here, but knowingly disregarding and violating federal law.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the law, one has to consider the refusal to obey this law as a discipline, duty and ethical conduct issue.

Sorry to go so far OT but I think the point needed addressing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Your 100% right. I can‘t think of a good argument. You honestly gave me something to think about.

Unfortinuatly everytime i hear about people registering their guns i think of the toronto police department holding a gun amnisty (sp?) asking people to turn in their old and unwanted firarms so that they may be destroyed, to make the streets safer. The police department turned around and were caught selling them back to the public then said something like "Well we are selling them back to the public so we can have more money to better do our job and serve the public"

 

[scm77]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/02/canada/khawaja040402

RCMP Confirm link between London and Ottawa Arrests.

OTTAWA - The RCMP has confirmed that the arrest of Mohammad Momin Khawaja on terror charges is linked to the detention of nine British Muslims.

INDEPTH: Canadian security

The group of nine men were arrested in an alleged bomb plot in the United Kingdom .

It‘s the first time that authorities have officially linked Mohammad Momin Khawaja,24, to the London arrests, which came about 12 hours after the Khawaja family home in Ottawa was raided by the RCMP.

The RCMP say that because of ban on publication of the details of Khawaja‘s case they can give no more details.

Khawaja‘s lawyer, Steven Greenberg, is reluctant to discuss the evidence against his client. But he did acknowledge the prosecution has shown him documents that clearly claim Mohammad Momin Khawaja is linked to the British men of Pakistani origin, arrested this week in London. The documents also refer to a half ton of ammonium nitrate, a fertilizer that can be used to make explosives, found in a London storage depot.

But Greenberg said the evidence is sketchy and incomplete. "I haven‘t seen anything that would support a charge, lets put it that way," he said.

Greenberg also complained that Khawaja has been denied proper access to legal help. He says police "continued questioning him, although he expressed his wish to have a lawyer present."

Qasim Khawaja, 26, was able to see his brother for the first time on Friday. He says his brother is held in solitary confinement and has little information about what is happening on the outside.

"He just said that he was bored and he had nothing to do except look at the walls. He‘s not frightened at all, he just hoped to come out of it pretty soon."

During a brief court appearance by videolink, Mohammad Momin Khawaja‘s bail hearing was set for next Wednesday. His lawyer says in spite of the seriousness of the charges, he expects his client to be granted bail.

Written by CBC News Online staff

 

[Spr.Earl]

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the law, one has to consider the refusal to obey this law as a discipline, duty and ethical conduct issue."

Devil39,that argument has been made by many to support unethical,illegal laws through out history.

We as Canadians know the present Gun Registry is a farce and a waste of money and we all know it.

Here in Vancouver the crimes with small arms has risen so much since the new Laws its unreal.
Yet those committing the shootings are not law abiding citizens but cultural minorities shooting it out in the clubs and restaurants for control of the dope scene here in the lower mainland but our P.C. press wont publicise this fact or what races are doing it,only names after the fact!!

The $1 billion plus would have been better spent on fighting these arseholes!!

I‘m getting to the point to go and buy my self a small arm and see if I can get carrying permit just for those trips at night into Vancouver.
Thats how bad it is here.

Remeber the Snow Boarder that was shot infront of a Club,helping some one who was shot at the same time?

Our Laws suck!!

 

[devil39]

Ghost,

I agree there are problems. I just do not believe we should compound the issue by failing the position of trust that we hold in society.


Spr Earl,

This is not an "unethical, illegal law". It may however be a poorly thought out law, a poorly implemented law, and perhaps one sold to the public under questionable pretences.

I too would rather the money was spent elsewhere, perhaps on enforcement vice registration.

That being said, I cannot find it within myself to care enough to quit the military as a result of the incontrovertible and irreconcilable moral and ethical quandry I would be placing myself in by not registering.

 

[elscotto937]

Before we set up a gun registry we should have conducted an OP HARVEST in metro Toronto. But at the very least the registry created some jobs in NB.

 

[1feral1]

Here‘s one for ya‘s

The NSW govt will be adding new japanese swords and similar swords, and machetes to its list of banned weapons.

Collectors of real WW2 swords etc, will have to apply for a permit to possess them, as for the machetes, I gues we‘ll have to clear the bush with something else.

All this brought by with cultural minorities using them in crime.

What next? The Bic pen and flat head screw drivers?

Honestly, the next thing to go will be privatly owned bayonets, and combat kives etc.

What a waste of taxpayers money!

cheers,

Wes

 

[Jarnhamar]

When will they make it tougher to get a drivers licence or make the punishment for drinking and driving more harsh?

I have a feeling more people die from drinking accidents then sword attacks.

In my home town one group of individuals were caught, repeatedly, bringing machettes to highschool squaring off in little gang fights. The last time i can remember it happening no punishments were handed out because they were ‘just adjusting to a different lifestyle‘.

 

[K. Ash]

What the **** kind of lifestyle were they used to bringing machettes to Highschool?

 

[Kirkhill]

A buddy of mine who is a teacher who used to be a Reservist has had similar problems.

There have been students at schools where he has taught show up with guns, machetes and baseball bats. Makes it difficult to decide when to intervene I guess.

However this teacher‘s impulse has been to get involved and try to shut down altercations before they become major incidents. From what I can gather he doesn‘t get a lot of backup from teachers or administration. Suggestions of racism seem to be often brought up.

I didn‘t know that trying to stop a gang-fight in a schoolyard was a racist act.