AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Stoker]

I vaguely remember something about power coming into the harbour, but other than that you're the only one that I have ever heard speak negatively about this ship.

Plenty of people in the know and some here have issues with the ship. In your day to day job do you hear all about what's going on in all the ships technical wise? Am I making shit up?

I also find it funny that your willing to write off all of the issues that the AOPs has had to being new and working out then kinks but won't give that same leeway to Davies or Asterix.

True. Perhaps I have a hate on for Davie and all the BS claims they're making about the ship. Regardless they have lots of issues and continuing limitations after 7 years of service. Hopefully they'll fix their tank baffles. AOPS has lots of issues too that needs to be squared away.

Again Asterix has given excellent service, and our people are clamouring to sail in her. If that's not a success I don't know what is.

Clamoring sail in her because of the private showers, laundry service etc. Its a good go and I think all RCN ships should have that level of comfort, so much so we've lost Jr personnel when they had to go back to the real Navy and the culture shock. Lots of people want to go to AOPS as well is that a measure of success as well?

 

[Stoker]

Is 100m expensive?
How much is it going to cost to run a jss for a yr?
Given the supposed lack of aor throughout nato I'm surprised that Davie couldn't make the case for obelix as a private service

I suspect when and of course if Asterix finishes lease Federal Fleet will try and market it to our Allies.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I vaguely remember something about power coming into the harbour, but other than that you're the only one that I have ever heard speak negatively about this ship.

Plenty of people in the know and some here have issues with the ship. In your day to day job do you hear all about what's going on in all the ships technical wise? Am I making shit up?

I'm definitely not calling you liar. But I can only go off of what I see and hear. And your position is most assuredly in the minority.

I also find it funny that your willing to write off all of the issues that the AOPs has had to being new and working out then kinks but won't give that same leeway to Davies or Asterix.

True. Perhaps I have a hate on for Davie and all the BS claims they're making about the ship. Regardless they have lots of issues and continuing limitations after 7 years of service. Hopefully they'll fix their tank baffles. AOPS has lots of issues too that needs to be squared away.

I think this is likely it. And we are all allowed to have biases, its just knowing when they skewing our perception that's the key.

Again Asterix has given excellent service, and our people are clamouring to sail in her. If that's not a success I don't know what is.

Clamoring sail in her because of the private showers, laundry service etc. Its a good go and I think all RCN ships should have that level of comfort, so much so we've lost Jr personnel when they had to go back to the real Navy and the culture shock. Lots of people want to go to AOPS as well is that a measure of success as well?

Again, I can only go off what I have seen and experienced and I haven't seen that; the folks getting out because they were posted back to the "real navy" I mean. Sure, consider that a measure of success for AOPs. I can recognize my bias against Irving though, and I can appreciate when one (AOPs) actually manages to put to sea and give our folks some sea days.

I suspect when and of course if Asterix finishes lease Federal Fleet will try and market it to our Allies.

But that wasn't his question.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I suspect when and of course if Asterix finishes lease Federal Fleet will try and market it to our Allies.

And is that a bad thing?

Over the last say 8-10yrs, we've not had a lot of 'wins' from what I've been able to gather on here or in the day to day news coverage with our ability to make our Allies 'happy' with us and with what we've been able to do, weather in the air, on the water or on land.

If Asterix is able to promote a CDN shipyard and its ability to deliver a solid, dependable workhorse of an ersatz AOR, why should we begrudge them or pee in their pool? It doesn't make any sense at all.

I'd love to be able to do a side by side comparison down the road of cost vs delivered capability of the Asterix vs the first JSS over the length of the Asterix lease. What capability and availability was delivered at what cost between the 2 of them within the fixed timeline of the overall Asterix lease.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And is that a bad thing?

Over the last say 8-10yrs, we've not had a lot of 'wins' from what I've been able to gather on here or in the day to day news coverage with our ability to make our Allies 'happy' with us and with what we've been able to do, weather in the air, on the water or on land.

If Asterix is able to promote a CDN shipyard and its ability to deliver a solid, dependable workhorse of an ersatz AOR, why should we begrudge them or pee in their pool? It doesn't make any sense at all.

I'd love to be able to do a side by side comparison down the road of cost vs delivered capability of the Asterix vs the first JSS over the length of the Asterix lease. What capability and availability was delivered at what cost between the 2 of them within the fixed timeline of the overall Asterix lease.

Other than passing fuel, they are fundamentally different capabilities. It is difficult to make a side by side comparison.

 

[Stoker]

I'm definitely not calling you liar. But I can only go off of what I see and hear. And your position is most assuredly in the minority.
That's cool, most people are grateful we have that capability and blinded to the downside of the build. Its not the be all, end all like Federal Fleet and Davie promotes constantly. I remember when they were building it, they made a big deal about the secondary propulsion unit to explain away the lack of redundancy of a second shaftline. What they were actually talking about was a bowthruster. It's that kind of crap that turned me off to the ship and wanted the lease to be over as soon as possible.

I think this is likely it. And we are all allowed to have biases, its just knowing when they skewing our perception that's the key.
No I don't think my perception is skewed at all.

Again, I can only go off what I have seen and experienced and I haven't seen that; the folks getting out because they were posted back to the "real navy" I mean. Sure, consider that a measure of success for AOPs. I can recognize my bias against Irving though, and I can appreciate when one (AOPs) actually manages to put to sea and give our folks some sea days.
Well we currently have 3 at sea right now and a busy sailing schedule coming up, lots of sea days to be had.


But that wasn't his question.
100M? Yes very expensive, we could buy a offshore built AOR for that.

 

[Pelorus]

The ship has a drop down Azipod thruster as secondary propulsion in case the main engine fails. Would only really let you limp back to port under your own power, but it's much more than just the bow thruster that it also has.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The quoting thing is all FUBAR for your post.

1) I'm happy we have a tanker. And I think we should have bought and it's sister and built the 2 JSS and have 4 tankers.

2) Ok.

3) Perfect, call AOPs a success then, if that's what you choose.

 

[Stoker]

And is that a bad thing?

Never said it was, I'm sure they'll find employment as a floating gas can it does great work.

Over the last say 8-10yrs, we've not had a lot of 'wins' from what I've been able to gather on here or in the day to day news coverage with our ability to make our Allies 'happy' with us and with what we've been able to do, weather in the air, on the water or on land.

100% not a bad thing and its done was the RCN wanted, just at a high cost.

If Asterix is able to promote a CDN shipyard and its ability to deliver a solid, dependable workhorse of an ersatz AOR, why should we begrudge them or pee in their pool? It doesn't make any sense at all.

Well they have no issues throwing shade and again they have ongoing limitations, who doesn't put in enough tank baffles? The only reasons I can think of is incompetence or rushing to get the ship on lease.

I'd love to be able to do a side by side comparison down the road of cost vs delivered capability of the Asterix vs the first JSS over the length of the Asterix lease
What capability and availability was delivered at what cost between the 2 of them within the fixed timeline of the overall Asterix lease.

I would think JSS would be a lot more expensive in the long run as its a wholly Naval ship with different capabilities and concept of use.

 

[Stoker]

The ship has a drop down Azipod thruster as secondary propulsion in case the main engine fails. Would only really let you limp back to port under your own power, but it's much more than just the bow thruster that it also has.

Cool, thank you for explaining that to me.

 

[Underway]

Some people here have a strange stink eye when they see anything Asterix. It's weird. But we're all entitled to our opinions. She's given honest service, and I know our sailors are more than happy to sail in her. And they are keeping up RAS skills.

Really though we should just buy her and a sister.

I fully recognize that their work with Asterix has been invaluable and has allowed us to continue without losing the AOR skills we so clearly need to keep. It did its job and is a success. No argument.

However I'm not all hearts and glitter when it comes to Asterix's challenges, particularly when I see a Davie press release.

 

[NavyShooter]

Keeping the skill, maintaining the capability, and operating the ship have been worth it.

If we had a 6-10 year gap in the capability, we would have seen ourselves trying to rebuild the capability from scratch, which would have cost us far more than the price we've paid.

Is Asterix all that and a bag of chips? Nope. It's not perfect, it wasn't finished when it showed up, and Davie is boastful of the ship for what it is.

On the other hand, it's kept our hand in the game, and let us be involved in a strategic capability, and saved us from losing that capability.

 

[FSTO]

The downstream affects of shutting down Saint John Shipyards coupled with the Hillier BHS detour led us to paying through the nose for a critical capability.

Yea Canada, we're back!!!

 

[suffolkowner]

We are not buying foreign built ships that's been decided. Otherwise we might as well get our ships built in China if we are focused on price delivery and who knows maybe even quality.

It's like the lav debate. We're getting 976 lavs in part because they are built in Canada

So it comes back to what is the cost of the jss to operate per year vs Asterix? Is it half the cost vs twice the capability? The same? Twice as much? What is the alternative ?

Not to pick on Davie as heddle or seaspan or Irving could have pushed a privatized aor service to nato as could a ton of other yards.
So is there a need for aors or not ?

 

[FSTO]

So is there a need for aors or not ?

We'd be more useful to the World if we had 10 AOR's vice 15 Destroyers.

(being a little factious, just a little)

 

[Good2Golf]

John Lewis-class Are definitely not Supply-class fast…

 

[Halifax Tar]

We'd be more useful to the World if we had 10 AOR's vice 15 Destroyers.

(being a little factious, just a little)

Astute.

 

[dapaterson]

We'd be more useful to the World if we had 10 AOR's vice 15 Destroyers.

(being a little factious, just a little)

Command at sea for Sea Log officers?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Astute.

No. Those are submarines.

 

[dapaterson]

No. Those are submarines.

No, those are aground.