AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[SeaKingTacco]

All those issues sound like the RCN failed to provide professional supervision of the refits and repairs.

Funny way to spell “ADM (Mat)/PSPC”…

 

[dapaterson]

Funny way to spell “ADM (Mat)/PSPC”…

It's not either / or - projects have both a sponsor and an implementer. The RCN owns the requirement - if they are hands off...

 

[Czech_pivo]

Facts according to you eh?

Point is that they did it to meet the delivery timeline and that was their driving factor. You're telling me that they couldn't build a regular superstructure in Canada regardless of the cruise ship technology? If it was under the NSS it wouldn't be allowed.

Quebec shipyard late delivering Coast Guard icebreakers after pushing federal government on purchase

Ottawa agreed to purchase the three used civilian ships at a cost of at least $827M in August 2018 after Trudeau surprised many by personally announcing negotiations

nationalpost.com

Of course we had to forcibly take ships back out of refit as the yards and unions played games with refits all the time. One yard in Quebec cut a hole in the ship so we couldn't take it back. The Margaree was stolen with tugs in the middle of the night out of Sorel and Protecteur was taken out of Lauzon in 79. because of union shenanigan's. Just because you never head about it, it never happened. Of course this was years ago, but Davie has always made a point on celebrating their history.

Always warms my heart to hear someone tell stories of Unions and the shenanigans that they tend to play.
In these examples it re-enforces the argument that they are only out for themselves and not for the rest of Canadian society by sabotaging their nations warships to serve their own purposes.

 

[suffolkowner]

It's not either / or - projects have both a sponsor and an implementer. The RCN owns the requirement - if they are hands off...

Imagine a private construction project without ongoing supervision. Now admitedly it is mostly done by the GC which in this case is the shipyard but still how many private construction projects in Canada would be on par with a refit of a RCN ship or approach a $4B new frigate

 

[Stoker]

Twist things you don't know, as usual.

I served in PROTECTEUR in 1980: She hadn't been in refit for four years and was going in refit the next year. So, no, she wasn't in refit in 1979.

As for MARGAREE, she was in refit in MONTREAL, at Vickers, and was towed to Halifax as a mutually agreed move with the navy so she wouldn't be stuck in the ice bound St Lawrence system in winter. That is not "stealing" a ship, which is what you mentioned was done many times before.

As for the superstructure thing for Asterix, keep not reading what I write: It confirms the opening statement of my post above.

I gave you the only two instances of "forcible" taking of ships by the RCN. If you can prove with actual evidence other than your word, of any other "forcible" taking, I am all ears. Agreeing to change a ship's location in mid refit is not "forcible".

No I got my accounts from people who were there and perhaps all the dates are wrong, I wasn't there but I'm sure you'll say they're lying because your were in the know. Its amazing the history you hear from fellow sailors.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I will not even comment.

Not quite: The shipyard in Sorel, named "Marine Industry" was a ship building yard. It did not do any repairs or refit work, but I am willing to accept that the sailors here are confused as to which Quebec shipyard is which since there were five at the time.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If by "faulted" meaning a steam of unsolicited bids, Davie and Federal Fleets press releases and a steady diet of boosts that the ship is better than the JSS....properly the reason why they did get the 3rd shipyard status for many years.

Can you provide some examples where Davies has directly compared the Asterix to JSS ?

That would be a terribly silly thing to do.

All those issues sound like the RCN failed to provide professional supervision of the refits and repairs.

That would never happen.

 

[Stoker]

Can you provide some examples where Davies has directly compared the Asterix to JSS ?

That would be a terribly silly thing to do.



That would never happen.

Most of my interactions was with the head of PR for Federal Fleet. He used to cruise some of the Navy facebook pages commenting on people talking about JSS and Asterix. He made alot of claims about the ship, he was called out on a number of them as well.

 

[markppcli]

No I got my accounts from people who were there and perhaps all the dates are wrong, I wasn't there but I'm sure you'll say they're lying because your were in the know. Its amazing the history you hear from fellow sailors.

View attachment 87474View attachment 87475View attachment 87476

Ah well if a single random source from Reddit said so it must be true

 

[Halifax Tar]

Most of my interactions was with the head of PR for Federal Fleet. He used to cruise some of the Navy facebook pages commenting on people talking about JSS and Asterix. He made alot of claims about the ship, he was called out on a number of them as well.

Hmmm interesting that's not what I was led to believe from your original quote, but I digress.

I agree comparing the two is a fools errand. JSS is much more capable. Having said that, I think there is a place for an Asterix styled AOR.

 

[Stoker]

Ah well if a single random source from Reddit said so it must be true

No, multiple accounts from people I know to be in the RCN who were Coxns, Chief Engineers etc. Not reddit. I suppose they could be all lying of course.

 

[Stoker]

Hmmm interesting that's not what I was led to believe from your original quote, but I digress.

I agree comparing the two is a fools errand. JSS is much more capable. Having said that, I think there is a place for an Asterix styled AOR.

We'll he did post some side to side comparisons of JSS verses Asterix. I agree there is currently a place for Asterix as something is better than nothing. IF we ended up buying it as the 3rd AOR then I would like to see actual GOC employees or all RCN running it, crewing as it is probably won't happen. In a perfect world buy a 3rd JSS or a few offshore built oilers to service our allies. I predict we'll look at the numbers in three years of purchasing, look at the condition of Asterix and most likely will not buy it. Of course Davie and Federal Fleet will scream blue murder.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's why we need a proper RCFA who can run large vessels. We can learn how to do it properly from our allies.