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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

whiskey601 said:
FFS has a contract to perform. Davie better not be giving the Libs an opportunity to terminate for breach.

But if they build a giant piece of shit or that simply doesn't meet the qualifications of the contract, it's the government's obligation to terminate. You intimate that it would be preferable for the government accept an unqualified ship.
 
Who is responsible for supplying and fitting the Government Supplied Equipment?
 
MTShaw said:
But if they build a giant piece of crap or that simply doesn't meet the qualifications of the contract, it's the government's obligation to terminate. You intimate that it would be preferable for the government accept an unqualified ship.

We do that all the time, and fix it ourselves.  Why would we change now?  We are into big political movers and shakers when you turn a ship back.  The Irving family has every MP, MPP and probably municipal politician from the Quebec border east on speed dial and/or donates to their campaigns.  You go ahead and tell the #3 people on the Canadian most wealthy list the bad news.  The RCN can't do that.  That's a minister to prime minister level gonadal fortitude requirement.  And I doubt the RCN leadership is able to speak truth to power on that one.
 
Other way around MT Shaw, : if the ship and the services fail to perform as per whatever the contract is, then terminate. Although buying duds and crappy services is a signature hallmark of Canadian defence procurement,  Davie nor Irving nor Seaspan are remarkable in that regard.
 
whiskey601 said:
Other way around MT Shaw, : if the ship and the services fail to perform as per whatever the contract is, then terminate. Although buying duds and crappy services is a signature hallmark of Canadian defence procurement,  Davie nor Irving nor Seaspan are remarkable in that regard.

And we're all kind of stuck with that. Unless we have NATO yards with notable building excellence build our ships. Or Korea.
 
Chris Pook said:
Who is responsible for supplying and fitting the Government Supplied Equipment?

The GFE is, obviously, being supplied by DND.  Installation of GFE is being carried out by subcontractors to FFS.  I'm providing two systems, to be installed by L-3.
 
Occam said:
The GFE is, obviously, being supplied by DND.  Installation of GFE is being carried out by subcontractors to FFS.  I'm providing two systems, to be installed by L-3.

Thanks for the info Occam.
 
Anytime.  FYI, from my perspective (which is pretty low on the totem pole), I hope we never do this again.  The sheer volume of e-mail and paperwork generated by the need to set up Technical Assistance Agreements (TAA) and Third Party Transfer (TPT) agreements to allow DND to share technical data and transfer Controlled Goods equipment to third parties has been nothing less than a pain in my backside for months.  It has been quite unpleasant, and taken me away from my normal job taking care of the existing fleet.  It's a lot easier to say "Fleet Maintenance Facility Cape Scott, install this.  Specification, tech data and pubs are attached", and they just pull the necessary materiel from the CF Supply System.  No figuring out the logistics of sending GFE to subcontractors outside of Canada for pre-assembly, then shipped to the coast for installation by another subcontractor.
 
MTShaw said:
But if they build a giant piece of shit or that simply doesn't meet the qualifications of the contract, it's the government's obligation to terminate. You intimate that it would be preferable for the government accept an unqualified ship.


We accept crap all the time from ISI and spend thousands of hours fixing it why would we expect this one to be any different?
 
Seaspan is in a lawsuit with one of it's sub-contractors, for failure to fulfill the terms of the contract. Seems the first OFSV needs to be fixed before acceptance.
 
DND wants early start on construction of already delayed navy resupply ships

The plan would see some work on the two support ships begin later this year, keeping the scheduled delivery to 2022 and 2023, rather than 12 months later

OTTAWA — The Department of National Defence wants to get an early start on cutting steel for the navy’s new support ships, hoping to keep the multibillion-dollar project from slipping farther behind schedule.

The plan would see some work on the two support ships begin in Vancouver later this year, taking advantage of a lull in the construction of two science vessels for the Canadian Coast Guard.

While the science vessels would still be delivered first, officials are hoping the head start will prevent another 12-month delay to the Protecteur-class joint support ships, as the naval vessels are officially known.

Defence officials are now talking to counterparts from other federal departments about the plan, which was initially pitched by Seaspan Shipbuilding in Vancouver.

Seaspan is responsible for building the two Protecteur-class vessels as well as four science ships and a polar icebreaker for the coast guard.

“The final shipyard proposal for the construction of the joint support ships will be presented for government approval in the coming year,” Defence Department spokesman Daniel Le Bouthillier said in an email.

“Discussions are underway on an early start to construction of the ships in 2018. This would result in the delivery of the first ship in about four years, with the second ship being delivered one year later.”

The plan is the latest twist in what has been a decade-long odyssey to equip the military with new support vessels, which are considered some of the most essential ships for a modern navy.

Canada has been without a permanent support ship since 2015, when the navy was forced to retire its existing vessels due to an unexpected fire and corrosion.

The gap will get a little smaller Tuesday when the Royal Canadian Navy formally welcomes to the fleet the converted civilian freighter MV Asterix, which will be leased to the government for five years, with a five-year option.

Navy commander Vice-Admiral Ron Lloyd was set to participate in a ceremony Tuesday in Halifax, after which the Asterix is expected to participate in a major U.S.-led exercise before heading to Asia.

But defence officials have said Asterix, which is owned by Quebec-based Davie Shipyards, won’t be deployed into harm’s way and is not a true military vessel like the Protecteur-class — an assertion that Davie has refuted.

“This ship has a robust force protection capability for when it deploys outside of Canadian waters,” said Spencer Fraser, head of Davie’s sister company, Federal Fleet Services. “So to say the ship is defenceless is a complete exaggeration and misnomer.”

Construction on the first support vessel was supposed to start in 2016, with delivery slated for 2019. But the project has been plagued by delays and cost uncertainty; the government says its $2.3-billion budget is also under review.

The most recent concern was a warning from Seaspan that it might have to lay off workers during a gap in construction between the third and fourth science vessels, which are completely different designs.

That prompted fears that experienced workers would move to other shipyards and be unavailable when it came time to ramp up production on the last science vessel and the support ships.

Starting some work on the support ships would prevent layoffs, said Seaspan vice-president Tim Page. It would also keep the scheduled delivery of the support ships to 2022 and 2023, rather than 12 months later.

“This opportunity will support the needs of our navy customer and enable us to retain the shipbuilding knowledge and experience of our workforce,” Page said in an email.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/national-defence-aims-to-save-time-by-cutting-steel-on-resupply-ships-early
 
Happened across this recent federal government direction:

Direction Made Pursuant to Section 224 of the National Defence Act Respecting Civilian Crews on Auxiliary Vessels

Short Title

1 This Direction may be cited as the Civilian Crews on Auxiliary Vessels Direction.

Application

2 It is hereby directed that the Government Vessels Discipline Act shall apply to civilian crews engaged for service on auxiliary vessels of the Canadian Forces.

Edit to add:  That Act is not an easy find. It looks like it wasn't carried forward into the current consolidation of the statutes.  Indexed at R.S.C. 1970, c. G-12
 
I went on a tour of Asterix last night given by Spencer Fraser CEO of Federal Fleet, enjoy the pictures.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GOCANADANAVY/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1774026875989368

 
The best part? The Trudeau picture seems to have disappeared!
 
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