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Application from Reservist to JTFF2

Remius

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TmoCaf said:
Would they actually block my application? Does this happen??

Maybe.  I’ve never seen it happen at my unit.  Although some people think it does when they don’t get what they think they deserve.
 

blacktriangle

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garb811 said:
That's why the Notice of Intent process was implemented. Units, and Career Managers, still have input, after the NOI has been submitted, but they can't just arbitrarily block an application from coming to the attention of SOF.

Absolutely, but it hasn't entirely stopped some units from trying to pull fast ones here and there. I've seen similar things happen with other types of special employment, OTs, UTPNCM/SCP. Holding onto/losing paerwork to make a member miss deadlines etc. Usually to the detriment of the greater CAF...but anyways, whatever I guess. I've also seen really supportive supervisors and units. One way or another, if someone really wants to make it, they will...eventually.

Good luck, OP.
 

cld617

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FormerHorseGuard said:
Why does everyone think they can join and make it to the elite side of the club house and become JTF-2. 

Because the system allows it, it encourages those incl Pte's to try out.

TmoCaf said:
Every interview and podcast I've listened to with current/former assaulters say that they encourage everyone to tryout.

Yup, the biggest hurdle for CANSOF employment has always been mbrs de-selecting themselves. The biggest detractors or naysayers either never had the heuvos to tryout themselves, or they failed and have a bad attitude about it.

Work hard, keep your head down and do what you can to keep moving forward. And always keep in the back of your mind that no one gives a damn but you, so work hard but do it silently.
 

PuckChaser

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I think a lot of the units that discourage people from going SOF are very much selfish in that they don't want to see their top performers disappear. At the end of the day, who SOF wants is outlined in the annual VOT messages for the respective trades. If you can meet all the requirements, you can and should be encouraged to apply regardless of rank or perceived experience level. The respective SOF units run a selection to decide who fits their requirements and who doesn't; its their call who's "good enough" not anyone in your CoC. Unless you work directly with those selection cells, get out of the way and encourage your members to apply.
 

daftandbarmy

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TmoCaf said:
I know it's not easy, that's why I want to do it. Why is everyone on this board so discouraging?
Every interview and podcast I've listened to with current/former assaulters say that they encourage everyone to tryout.
I don't understand this bring me down attitude with the Canadian military, look at the US, if you say you want to be a SEAL, everyone tells you what you need to do, yes its hard, but they don't shove discouragement down your throat.

If you think this crew is discouraging, wait until selection ;)

Meanwhile, press on!  :nod:
 

Jarnhamar

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daftandbarmy said:
If you think this crew is discouraging, wait until selection ;)

Meanwhile, press on!  :nod:

Took a look at the Navy Seal subreddit. Lots of "I'm not a SEAL but" posts as well as some pretty scathing comments. Hardly the everyone is supportive environment reported.
 

Haggis

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PuckChaser said:
I think a lot of the units that discourage people from going SOF are very much selfish in that they don't want to see their top performers disappear.
Those same units and leaders would discourage/block their top performers from any opportunity, not just CANSOF.

PuckChaser said:
The respective SOF units run a selection to decide who fits their requirements and who doesn't; its their call who's "good enough" not anyone in your CoC.
  The type of people who are successful in CANSOF would surprise many, as would the type of people who get screened out.
 

cld617

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daftandbarmy said:
If you think this crew is discouraging, wait until selection ;)

Meanwhile, press on!  :nod:

So long as you show up and put out, the "encouragement" or discouragement is going to be pretty neutral and very clinical. They don't need to tell you that you're not cut out, the monumental physical and mental challenges will have those unfit weed themselves out, or you'll find out at the end with a sincere thanks but no thanks. The complete lack of feedback is what gets to many.
 

TmoCaf

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Ó Donnghaile said:
There is a multitude of threads on this very subject (search function mate), however, I'll give you the TLDR:

All Operator positions are available to PRes NCMs who have reached their occupational function point (you need to be a Cpl to WO to apply for Special Operations Assaulter in the PRes), obviously though you need to get through the CAF recruitment process, pass BMQ, BMQ-L (if you're not infantry), and the courses required to reach your OFP.

In short you got a long road before this even becomes tenable to you.

Can people not in the military access this info? Also, thanks for the reply.
 

Ludoc

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TmoCaf said:
I mean the information about needing to be corporal and more details like the op entailed.
Download the Canadian Armed Forces app on your phone. Then open the "CANFORGEN" section. The solicitation for this year has not been published but if you look through 2019 you can see the call for volunteers with a description of the minimum requirements.
 

TmoCaf

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Ludoc said:
Download the Canadian Armed Forces app on your phone. Then open the "CANFORGEN" section. The solicitation for this year has not been published but if you look through 2019 you can see the call for volunteers with a description of the minimum requirements.
HOLY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING! THANK YOU FRIEND!
 

cld617

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Ludoc said:
Download the Canadian Armed Forces app on your phone. Then open the "CANFORGEN" section. The solicitation for this year has not been published but if you look through 2019 you can see the call for volunteers with a description of the minimum requirements.

Assaulter canforgen was 043/20 this year.
 

jaysfan17

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I realize I may be a little late to this topic, but I think I may be able to help OP and/or future posters with similar aspirations.

One of my buddies who I deployed with last year applied for JTF2. He’s been in for 6 years I believe (30 years old), achieved the rank of Cpl/LS, been on 2 deployments and from what he told me is he exceeded the minimum standards on the pre selection fitness test. They didn’t take him. From what I was told all the boxes were ticked on his file, but when everything was put together he simply wasn’t competitive enough.

My advice (assuming you’re open to other options): Join the Reserves. It’s a perfect option when you have a full time job already. Try it out for a bit and see if you can handle that. Baby steps.

I’m willing to bet that those who wanted and were successful in completing their SOF training didn’t expect it to take as long as they though it would. As was mentioned previously, have a backup plan.

 

Ludoc

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Here is a quick cut and paste of the latest CANFORGEN on Reserves joining JTF2:

CANFORGEN 057/20 CANSOFCOM 03/20 251415Z APR 20
JOINT TASK FORCE 2 (JTF 2) SPECIAL OPERATIONS ASSAULTER (SOA) P RES EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY 2020

UNCLASSIFIED

    JTF 2 PROTECTS THE CANADIAN NATIONAL INTEREST AND COMBATS TERRORISM BOTH DOMESTICALLY AND ABROAD

    SPECIAL OPERATIONS ASSAULTERS ARE DIRECTLY EMPLOYED IN THE TACTICAL ASPECTS OF SPECIAL OPERATIONS AND OTHER HIGH VALUE TASKS

    THE UPCOMING JTF 2 ASSESSMENT PHASE (AP) IN THE FALL OF 2020 IS OPEN TO P RES APPLICANTS WHO MEET THE FOLLOWING ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA:

        P RES NCMS – CPL/LS TO WO/PO1

        NCMS MUST MEET MIN MEDICAL CATEGORY: 222225

        CBT ARMS P RES OFFICERS WILL BE CONSIDERED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS - LT/SLT TO MAJ/LCDR

        OFFICERS MUST MEET MIN MEDICAL CATEGORY FOR CURRENT OCCUPATION

        MUST BE OPERATIONAL FUNCTIONAL POINT (OFP) QUALIFIED IN CURRENT MOSID

        CURRENT FORCE EVALUATION

        MEET THE JTF 2 PHYSICAL FITNESS PRE-SELECTION TEST AND BASIC MILITARY SWIM STANDARD MINIMUM

        POSSESS A VALID PROVINCIAL/TERRITORIAL DRIVERS LICENCE

        SECUR CL LVL II (SECRET). APPLICANTS NOT CLEARED TO LVL II MUST INITIATE A CLEARANCE REQUEST PRIOR TO APPLYING

    FURTHER INFORMATION ON APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS AND THE SELECTION PROCESS ARE AVAILABLE AT:
    HTTP://INTRANET.MIL.CA/EN/PERSONNEL/MIL/CANSOFCOM-JOIN-HOW-TO-APPLY.PAGE

    AS PART OF THE PROCESS, APPLICANTS WILL BE REQUIRED TO APPLY FOR A COMPONENT TRANSFER (CT) TO THE REG F. THE CT PROCESS WILL BE FINALIZED ONLY UPON SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF AP AND PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT OF SOA TRAINING. CT APPLICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO DMCPG 5-5 NLT 14 AUG 2020

    THE CLOSING DATE BY WHICH ALL COMPLETED FILES MUST BE SUBMITTED NLT 14 AUG 2020

    FILES WILL BE EVALUATED IN A COMPETITIVE PROCESS AND AS SUCH NOT ALL APPLICANTS WILL BE INVITED TO COMPLETE SUBSEQUENT PHASES

    ONLY TWO ATTEMPTS AT PHASE III OF SOA SELECTION ARE ALLOWED. APPLICANTS SHOULD BE CERTAIN THEY ARE PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY READY TO ATTEND PHASE III

    SUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS MAY BE LOADED ON THE SPECIAL OPERATIONS ASSAULTER COURSE (SOAC) COMMENCING JANUARY 2021

    THE REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN OPSEC THROUGHOUT THE APPLICATION AND SELECTION PROCESS IS PARAMOUNT AND AS SUCH, APPLICANTS SHOULD REFRAIN FROM DISCUSSING THEIR APPLICATIONS OUTSIDE OF THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND, PARTNERS, AND CLOSE FAMILY MEMBERS. THIS INCLUDES AVOIDING ANY DISCLOSURE ON SOCIAL MEDIA

    QUESTIONS MAY BE DIRECTED TO JTF 2 RECRUITING AND SELECTION AT: 1-800-959-9188 OR (PLUS)(PLUS)OTGRECRUIT(A) CANSOFCOM(A)OTTAWA-HULL OR OTGRECRUIT(A)FORCES.GC.CA

The same info for those that prefer it in a less made up/bastardized language:

CANFORGEN 057/20 CANSOFCOM 03/20 251415Z APR 20
DEUXIEME FORCE OPERATIONNELLE INTERARMEES (FOI 2) – COMBATTANT DE LA FORCE D INTERVENTION SPECIALE (CBT FIS) – OCCASION D EMPLOI DANS LA P RES 2020

UNCLASSIFIED

    LA FOI 2 PROTEGE LES INTERETS NATIONAUX CANADIENS ET COMBAT LE TERRORISME AU PAYS ET A L ETRANGER

    LES COMBATTANTS DE LA FORCE D INTERVENTION SPECIALE SONT EMPLOYES DIRECTEMENT DANS LES ASPECTS TACTIQUES DES OPERATIONS SPECIALES ET DANS D AUTRES TACHES DE GRANDE VALEUR

    LA PROCHAINE PHASE D EVALUATION POUR LA FOI 2, QUI SE DEROULERA A L AUTOMNE DE 2020, EST OUVERTE AUX CANDIDATS DE LA P RES QUI RESPECTENT LES CRITERES D ADMISSIBILITE SUIVANTS:

        MR P RES – DE CPL/MAT 1 A ADJ/M 1

        LES MR DOIVENT RENCONTRER LA NORME MEDICALE MINIMALE DE V2 CV2 H2 G2 O2 A5

        LES OFFICIERS DE LA P RES DES A CBT SERONT CONSIDERES CAS PAR CAS – DE LT/ENS 1 A MAJ/CAPC

        LES OFFICIERS DOIVENT RENCONTRER LA NORME MEDICALE MINIMALE EXIGEE POUR LEUR METIER ACTUEL

        AVOIR ATTEINT LE NIVEAU OPERATIONNEL DE COMPETENCE (NOC) DANS L ID SGPM ACTUEL

        AVOIR UNE EVALUATION FORCE VALIDE

        RENCONTRER LA NORME D EVALUATION DE LA CONDITION PHYSIQUE DE LA FOI 2, INCLUANT LA NORME DE NATATION MILITAIRE DE BASE

        DETENIR UN PERMIS DE CONDUIRE PROVINCIAL/TERRITORIAL VALIDE

        ATTESTATION DE SECURITE DE NIVEAU II (SECRET). LES CANDIDATS NE DETENANT PAS CETTE ATTESTATION DOIVENT EN FAIRE LA DEMANDE AVANT DE POSER LEUR CANDIDATURE

    VOUS TROUVEREZ PLUS D INFORMATION SUR LES EXIGENCES EN MATIERE DE CANDIDATURE ET SUR LE PROCESSUS DE SELECTION AU LIEN RED SUIVANT:
    HTTP://INTRANET.MIL.CA/FR/PERSONNEL/MIL/COMFOSCAN-COMMENT-POSER-CANDIDATURE.PAGE

    DANS LE CADRE DU PROCESSUS, LES CANDIDATS DEVRONT DEMANDER UN TRANSFERT D ELEMENT CONSTITUTIF VERS LA F REG. LE PROCESSUS NE SERA FINALISE Q UNE FOIS LA REUSSITTE DE LA PHASE D EVALUATION ET AVANT LE DEBUT DE L ENTRAINEMENT DE CBT FIS. LES DEMANDES DE TRANSFERT DOIVENT ETRE PRESENTEES AU DPGCM 5-5 APTL 14 AOUT 2020

    TOUS LES DOSSIERS COMPLETS DOIVENT ETRE PRESENTES APTL 14 AOUT 2020

    LES DOSSIERS SERONT EVALUES DANS UN PROCESSUS COMPETITIF ET CE NE SONT PAS TOUS LES CANDIDATS QUI SERONT INVITES A PASSER AUX PHASES SUIVANTES

    SEULEMENT DEUX TENTATIVES SONT PERMISES POUR LA PHASE III DE LA SELECTION DE CFIS. LES CANDIDATS DOIVENT S ASSURER D ETRE PRETS PHYSIQUEMENT ET MENTALEMENT A Y PRENDRE PART

    LES CANDIDATS RETENUS POURRONT ETRE INSCRITS AU COURS DE CFIS QUI COMMENCERA EN JANVIER 2021

    L OBLIGATION DE MAINTENIR LA SECOP TOUT AU LONG DU PROCESSUS DE MISE EN CANDIDATURE ET DE SELECTION EST PRIMORDIALE. AINSI, LES CANDIDATS NE DOIVENT PAS DISCUTER DE LEURS DEMARCHES AVEC DES PERSONNES AUTRES QUE DE CELLES DANS LEUR CHAINE DE COMMANDEMENT, CONJOINT(E) ET MEMBRES DE LA FAMILLE PROCHES. CECI INCLUS D EVITER TOUTE DIVULGATION SUR LES MEDIAS SOCIAUX

    TOUTES QUESTIONS PEUVENT ETRE ADRESSEES A LA SECTION DE RECRUTEMENT ET DE SELECTION DE LA FOI 2 AU 1-800-959-9188 OU A (PLUS)(PLUS)OTGRECRUIT(A COMMERCIAL) CANSOFCOM(A COMMERCIAL)OTTAWA-HULL OU AU OTGRECRUIT(A COMMERCIAL)FORCES.GC.CA
 

jaysfan17

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Thanks for throwing that CANFORGEN out there.

I've always wondered why the JTF2 pre-selection only requires applicants to do the BMSS while CSOR is required to do the Combat Swim Test for their pre-selection.
 

cld617

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Old club, old rules.

It is woefully inadequate and gauge water comfort and competency, so I urge anyone interested to not take that as the level required.
 

PuckChaser

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Considering JTF2 has been doing selection for almost 30 years, I'm pretty sure they know what they need. Training safety also requires a BMSS before water training, so its probably a box checker type item for whatever water stuff they'd do on selection or course.
 

Wolfmann

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People go off the street to BUDs, I'm sorry I have aspirations man.
Why does anyone sign up for CAF, they might not make it through basic, right?

So...there's no one here saying YOU can't do it but Dangerboy is correct: have Plan B.

For JTF-2 a bar is set for all candidates - at every point this bar t is set to minimum standard for each serial or evolution and for each step through the process the bar is moved higher and you are expected to exceed standard.

Anyone below that standard is cut. We use this method through ALL training serials in every trade.

Easy concept right?

What the real f-in kicker is and what makes JTF-2 different is that let's say you meet standard or even exceed it, if you're still at the bottom...depending upon where you are at in that selection/qual point...the bottom rungs are cut and you're gone, no redress. ANY safety violation - like a negligent discharge, and you're gone. Full stop.

Consider that reality.

17% make it through those 1.5 years from initial intention letter to evaluation through to qualification training completion. And that's just SO you can be selected to join JTF-2...you can go through that entire process, and still NOT be selected out of the training cell to join JTF-2. Once you do though, your real education begins once you join the team and the bar stays where it is - you constantly have to maintain standard and are always being evaluated.

Hence...have Plan B.

JTF-2 operators make more than standard NCMs/Officers - Corporals as specialists make about $80,000 a year. If you're a lawyer, you're going into the wrong field if money is your motivator, however all NCM assaulters get a sizable pay differential/allowance...I believe it's $15-20,000 a year that's a direct top up - that's changing now, if you aren't O2/G2 med category for six months. That doesn't include an indexed living allowance, travel allowances, danger pay, qualification speciality pay, and of course deployment and other types of compensation.

JTF-2 will never be open for direct entry. CSOR is considering opening for direct entry, but it's still selective. Even with BUD/S you still have to go through recruit and basic naval training - it's just that your trade qualification will be Naval Special Warfare Operator/Officer. Same would be for CSOR.

Don't listen to the internet - you're going into the wrong business if attitudes on the internet can discourage you or pay is a motivating factor. That's just the reality of it. You need to find your Type A and set your goals, and have multiple goals, because life has that funny way of turning out how you least expect it.

Good luck to you...the reserve path is a good way to go to see if you even like the military.
 
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