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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

Stoker

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Anchors, chains, deck equipment made in China has been used on HMC ships for years. They have the industry to produce these products. I dont see the problem.
 

Kirkhill

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Czech_pivo said:
Chinese made equipment on the AOPS....

Hmmm, 17% of the steel used in the Harry DeWolf (and the other two under construction I assume) is from China....  I'll just let that sink in.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/arctic-patrol-ships-chinese-content-1.4849562

"It noted that 17 per cent of the steel being used to construct the warship — as well as the lifeboats, mooring and towing system components and various pipes and fittings — came from Chinese companies."

"Complicating matters is an almost-forgotten case of alleged espionage that is still grinding its way through the legal system.

Chinese-born Qing Quentin Huang, who worked for Lloyd's Registry, was charged in 2013 with "attempting to communicate with a foreign entity."

He was accused of trying to pass design information about Canada's Arctic ships to the Chinese."

Not an original problem Czech-pivo.

Before the Berlin Wall fell - way back in the 80s - the RCN ships ran on Vacuum Tubes (they showed up just after the Pterodactyl and predated transistors).  The Canadian Government used to buy them for the RCN from Czechoslovakia - one of our erstwhile targets.  The problem was that all of our domestic suppliers and allies had moved on from vacuum tubes to transistors and were heading for  integrated circuits and other systems susceptible to EMP effects.

Lenin proposed that the west would sell him the rope with which he could hang us.  He wasn't wrong.
 

Edward Campbell

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Chris Pook said:
Not an original problem Czech-pivo.

Before the Berlin Wall fell - way back in the 80s - the RCN ships ran on Vacuum Tubes (they showed up just after the Pterodactyl and predated transistors).  The Canadian Government used to buy them for the RCN from Czechoslovakia - one of our erstwhile targets.  The problem was that all of our domestic suppliers and allies had moved on from vacuum tubes to transistors and were heading for  integrated circuits and other systems susceptible to EMP effects.

Lenin proposed that the west would sell him the rope with which he could hang us.  He wasn't wrong.


And you'll be pleased to know that NAMSA the NATO NATO Maintenance and Supply Agency, worked with those Czech (and East German too, I believe) firms to ensure proper quality control and they gave them NATO Stock Numbers and all that ... we were not the only country using vacuum tubes (and in more than just ships) until well into the 1990s.

This gorgeous beast 
3467980893_f7b8f51eb9_z.jpg
  was used by all three services until at least 1989 and, I suspect, a lot longer ... I personally, used it and variants of it in Africa in the 1960s, the Middle East in the 1970s, and in Canada and Europe in the 1980s. I believe it entered service in the US just after the end of the Koran War.
 

Czech_pivo

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Here’s a recent example of why we need to be on guard -  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
 

Stoker

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Czech_pivo said:
Here’s a recent example of why we need to be on guard -  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

Your original post specifically quoted steel and other deck fittings and piping. It is common to source these materials through the global supply chain which includes China. China also supplies many electronic components we use, some probably by the military. While yes a Trojan horse is possible I assume and yes I am only guessing we watch out for that kind of stuff in military procurement.
 

Czech_pivo

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Chris Pook said:
Not an original problem Czech-pivo.

Before the Berlin Wall fell - way back in the 80s - the RCN ships ran on Vacuum Tubes (they showed up just after the Pterodactyl and predated transistors).  The Canadian Government used to buy them for the RCN from Czechoslovakia - one of our erstwhile targets.  The problem was that all of our domestic suppliers and allies had moved on from vacuum tubes to transistors and were heading for  integrated circuits and other systems susceptible to EMP effects.

Lenin proposed that the west would sell him the rope with which he could hang us.  He wasn't wrong.

Just out of curiosity, was any of this public knowledge?  Did the newspapers report on this or was it all buried away and John Q Public was not aware of any of this?  After Nov of '89 it wouldn't have matter.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Czech_pivo said:
Just out of curiosity, was any of this public knowledge?  Did the newspapers report on this or was it all buried away and John Q Public was not aware of any of this?  After Nov of '89 it wouldn't have matter.

It was public knowledge.
 

YZT580

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SeaKingTacco said:
It was public knowledge.
  There wasn't any choice.  NA had moved entirely to solid state and there were no factories capable of manufacturing tubes.  It was either that or replace every bit of electronic gear we had.  But it wasn't just radios, RADAR relied upon HV Vacuum tubes to even function.  Oh, the US got their tubes from the same sources as far as I know.
 

Czech_pivo

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YZT580 said:
  There wasn't any choice.  NA had moved entirely to solid state and there were no factories capable of manufacturing tubes.  It was either that or replace every bit of electronic gear we had.  But it wasn't just radios, RADAR relied upon HV Vacuum tubes to even function.  Oh, the US got their tubes from the same sources as far as I know.

Now that's funny. Just a couple of 'wild and crazy guys' (the Czechs) supplying us and the Americans with vacuum tubes to keep our ships running. Nice.
 

Baz

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YZT580 said:
  There wasn't any choice.  NA had moved entirely to solid state and there were no factories capable of manufacturing tubes.  It was either that or replace every bit of electronic gear we had.  But it wasn't just radios, RADAR relied upon HV Vacuum tubes to even function.  Oh, the US got their tubes from the same sources as far as I know.

North America hadn't, and hasn't moved entirely to solid state; they had moved to solid state for most things.

High power RF transmission is still done with tubes, and probably will continue to be for the foreseeable future.  Solid state just doesn't handle the power well.  It took less than a minute to find a US manufacturer (https://www.cpii.com/division.cfm/9).

But yes, sources of the common tubes had dried up; although I wouldn't be surprised if the audiophile niche hasn't caused a resurgence.  Or maybe they are depending on warehouses full of old unopened stock???
 

Pelorus

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Baz said:
North America hadn't, and hasn't moved entirely to solid state; they had moved to solid state for most things.

High power RF transmission is still done with tubes, and probably will continue to be for the foreseeable future.  Solid state just doesn't handle the power well.  It took less than a minute to find a US manufacturer (https://www.cpii.com/division.cfm/9).

But yes, sources of the common tubes had dried up; although I wouldn't be surprised if the audiophile niche hasn't caused a resurgence.  Or maybe they are depending on warehouses full of old unopened stock???

With respect to another related field, it's only been the last few years where digital technology has gotten to the point of being a serious contender for the high-end guitar amplifier market, which was a another area which sustained vacuum tube factories. I would say that tube amps were king until as late as the mid 2010's, and are still a pretty significant chunk of the market share.

I'm trying to think back to when I was a lot more current on the topic, but there was definitely a lengthy period (80s-early 2000s) where all consumer vacuum tubes came from a small handful of Russian/Eastern European factories like Sovtek, Svetlana, and JJ Electronic. As the market opened up and a demand for vacuum tubes increased, some additional factories (Chinese mostly) were stood up to make cheaper versions. "New Old Stock" tubes from the heyday of the vacuum tube era are still sold too, however get more and more expensive as time goes on.
 

Stoker

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Dow1-mMV4AEHbz4_zpsaawy7enz.jpg


The wolf, sword & shield and white background - representing the icy waters of Canada’s Arctic and Vice-Admirals DeWolf's rank.

Its a nice ships badge.

 

Underway

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As ships badges go it's amazing.  Wolf with a sword?  Yes please!  Any word on the motto?
 

Czech_pivo

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I’m surprised that the Trudeau Libs are allowing the Red Cross on a White Shield as that is not an ‘inclusive’ symbol in today’s Canada and that wolf! It’s so fearsome looking, it should be more Canadian, like, happy and more domesticated. A wolf that is safe to be around. And lose that sword as we’re not out to intimidate or scare anyone.
 

kratz

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I like the ship's crest. It follows Canadian Heraldry policy, based out of the GGG's office.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Czech_pivo said:
I’m surprised that the Trudeau Libs are allowing the Red Cross on a White Shield as that is not an ‘inclusive’ symbol in today’s Canada and that wolf! It’s so fearsome looking, it should be more Canadian, like, happy and more domesticated. A wolf that is safe to be around. And lose that sword as we’re not out to intimidate or scare anyone.

The red cross on white with a single red ball is the distinguishing flag of a vice-admiral in both British and Canadian navy, Czech_Pivo. It has nothing to do with the "Red-Cross" organization, or the Christian faith - and everything to do with Harry De Wolf's rank.

I like the badge very much. And hope the ship's motto captures a "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead" attitude of Admiral De Wolf's style.  :nod:
 

Sub_Guy

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It’s a cool badge for sure.

Sadly, I think it’s better suited for a warship and not a beefed up Coast Guard Vessel.

 

Czech_pivo

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
The red cross on white with a single red ball is the distinguishing flag of a vice-admiral in both British and Canadian navy, Czech_Pivo. It has nothing to do with the "Red-Cross" organization, or the Christian faith - and everything to do with Harry De Wolf's rank.

I like the badge very much. And hope the ship's motto captures a "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead" attitude of Admiral De Wolf's style.  :nod:
 

Underway

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Some terms for those not familiar with how a ship goes from the builder to the navy.  Reproduced below .  Some edits were done to remove the references and preamble.

Launch. A ship can be launched stern first, bow first or sideways (beamwise) down a slipway directly into the water. Or, as is the case with AOPV, she can be ‘transitioned,’ carried from the wharf where she was built onto a barge. The barge is moved away from the wharf and semi-submerged, allowing the ship to float up. A launch usually occurs after a naming but as the launch process for the first AOPV will take some time, understood to be days, and as it is intended that the naming be a major ceremony, the launch will be prior to the naming.

Naming. Though traditionally naming ceremonies were filled with religious aspects, increasingly they have become secularized. In the RCN the ceremony was called a christening but in modern times that has been changed to naming. At the ceremony, after speeches and prayers, the sponsor breaks a bottle of wine or other liquid on the ship’s bow as a form of toast and then declares the ship’s name. It is at this point that the ship is officially named. Prior announcements are declarations of the intended name, and ships have on occasion had their name changed before their naming ceremony. During building an AOPV is really ‘Irving Hull ###’ though she can also be known as ‘future HMCS Name’ or ‘future Name.’ The future HMCS Harry DeWolf(1) is Irving Hull 103, and her sisters of the Harry DeWolf-class will be numbered sequentially after that.

Acceptance. The occasion of signing a certificate by AOPS and other government staff and by shipbuilder representatives indicating that the builder has achieved contract requirements to date and that the government will now assume responsibility for the ship. The occasion is marked by a small ceremony, usually in the ship’s captain’s cabin. For Harry DeWolf, acceptance will occur some time after the launch and after builder’s and acceptance trials are completed, and before naval trials and the commissioning ceremony. Acceptance can be considered as ‘delivery’ of the ship by the builder, though that may be affected by contractual stipulations. After the acceptance a naval officer assumes command of the ship (having been ordered or commissioned to do so), relieving the shipbuilder’s civilian master. The ship is legally in commissioned service as of this time, and the identifier HMCS (Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship) is put as part of the ship’s name.

Builder’s Trials. Evaluation trials and inspection conducted by the builder for the purpose of assuring the builder and the Navy that the ship is, or will be, ready for acceptance trials. These trials are a comprehensive test of all ship’s equipment and approximate the scope of the acceptance trials.

Commissioning. The ceremony marking the taking into active naval service of a ship. The event may be some months after the date when a naval officer took command and the ship entered commissioned service. Commission refers to the orders to take command; it is not the ship per se that is commissioned.

Sponsor. A person, traditionally a woman, selected for her or his relationship to the ship’s namesake or role and who represents the crown/state at the naming ceremony. It is said that the sponsor’s spirit and presence guides the ship throughout the service life of the ship.

Transition. The movement, often sideways although in Harry DeWolf’s case longitudinally, of a ship from wharf to launch barge.

Wharf. Marine infrastructure laid out parallel to the shore. The particular wharf where Irving Shipbuilding joins together the mega-blocks of an AOPV is called the Ship Erection Platform (SEP).

Self-Propelled Modular Transporters (SPMT). Large configurable (measured by ‘axle lines’) vehicles used by Irving Shipbuilding to carry AOPV from wharf to barge. To move an AOPV, Irving will use 48 axle lines of SPMT and three Power Pack Units (PPU).

Launch Barge. A vessel onto which each AOPV will be moved and then taken out into Bedford Basin, where the barge will semi-submerge to float up the AOPV. Irving has chartered BoaBarge 37 for this.

As for the naming ceremony details and video here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/arctic-offshore-patrol-ship-irving-hmcs-harry-dewolf-1.4853242

https://globalnews.ca/video/4521392/hmcs-harry-dewolf-christening

Video gives me chills.  It all seems official now.
 
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