Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[Stoker]

When the AOPs were first designed, the RCN took a deliberate decision to cut corners on the hangar and flight deck, in order to save money.

Fast forward to today. In order to reverse that decision, it is going to take both time and money to unwind that decision.

Considering that the tempo of helo operations on a HDW Class compared to a Halifax Class where the frequency of operations and maintenance is presumably greater I would assume that a overhead crane and such would be realized at some point.

Realizing all of that and what we've probably have on the CDC, and I'm sure we'll get there perhaps we should look at abandoning that capability all together and go with the drone carrier route with both surveillance UAV's and procure offensive ones. The ship has the space and I'm hearing rumblings of a working group possibly for a upgrade of the ships main gun. Throw in some chaff, ECM, anti drone and a fire control with containerized Harpoons and manpads.

Refit everything during their 5 year refit. Do one ship and see how everything works.

 

[Kirkhill]

Considering that the tempo of helo operations on a HDW Class compared to a Halifax Class where the frequency of operations and maintenance is presumably greater I would assume that a overhead crane and such would be realized at some point.

Realizing all of that and what we've probably have on the CDC, and I'm sure we'll get there perhaps we should look at abandoning that capability all together and go with the drone carrier route with both surveillance UAV's and procure offensive ones. The ship has the space and I'm hearing rumblings of a working group possibly for a upgrade of the ships main gun. Throw in some chaff, ECM, anti drone and a fire control with containerized Harpoons and manpads.

Refit everything during their 5 year refit. Do one ship and see how everything works.

I wonder if you could fit a couple of X-Bats and half a dozen V-Bats on board an HDW?

The Rise Of X-BAT

Shield AI's highly ambitious plan to disrupt the autonomous combat aircraft market with its VTOL stealth drone.

www.twz.com

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Considering that the tempo of helo operations on a HDW Class compared to a Halifax Class where the frequency of operations and maintenance is presumably greater I would assume that a overhead crane and such would be realized at some point.

Realizing all of that and what we've probably have on the CDC, and I'm sure we'll get there perhaps we should look at abandoning that capability all together and go with the drone carrier route with both surveillance UAV's and procure offensive ones. The ship has the space and I'm hearing rumblings of a working group possibly for a upgrade of the ships main gun. Throw in some chaff, ECM, anti drone and a fire control with containerized Harpoons and manpads.

Refit everything during their 5 year refit. Do one ship and see how everything works.

I have no strong opinion about drones vs helos. I am a service provider to the RCN. It is up to the RCN to doctrinally decide what service (effect) they want and who they want to deliver it.

 

[GR66]

Considering that the tempo of helo operations on a HDW Class compared to a Halifax Class where the frequency of operations and maintenance is presumably greater I would assume that a overhead crane and such would be realized at some point.

Realizing all of that and what we've probably have on the CDC, and I'm sure we'll get there perhaps we should look at abandoning that capability all together and go with the drone carrier route with both surveillance UAV's and procure offensive ones. The ship has the space and I'm hearing rumblings of a working group possibly for a upgrade of the ships main gun. Throw in some chaff, ECM, anti drone and a fire control with containerized Harpoons and manpads.

Refit everything during their 5 year refit. Do one ship and see how everything works.

So turn the AOPS into a combatant?

I'm definitely in the camp of those that believe that all RCN ships should have a useful role in case of conflict. However, I don't think trying to configure the AOPS for ASuW with Harpoons makes any sense. Enemy surface combatants are unlikely to approach our coastlines in the face of US Naval and Air power and you're not going to deploy a big and slow AOPS forward where it can't keep up with an allied Task Group. In my opinion enemy submarines are likely the greatest threat to our coastlines.

The role I think makes most sense for AOPS in a conflict is ISR and MCM. A UAV like the CAMCOPTER S-300 has excellent range and endurance and can provide extended range visual and radar detection of surface vessels. It can also deploy sonobuoys which along with a containerized towed-array would make it another useful node in our ASW net.

In addition the AOPS could be a mother ship to deploy medium/large UUVs as part of that ASW net and also possibly service XLUUVs at sea in addition to being a communications node for these unmanned systems. MCM ROV's could also be deployed as required.

I'd also be in favour of C-UAV capabilities which might include upgrading the main gun to provide the option of airburst ammunition for use against drones. If an appropriate space on the ship could be found you could also possibly mount a "bolt-on" self defence system like a SeaRAM CIWS, MBDA's SPIMM or Safran's NGDS hard-kill/soft-kill launcher. Worst case and noted above MANPADS could be embarked.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Helo's on CCG ships do ice recce, SAR search, ship to shore transfer of people and gear. I am unimpressed with the RCN that they can't resolve this issue in a timely manner.

 

[Stoker]

So turn the AOPS into a combatant?

I'm definitely in the camp of those that believe that all RCN ships should have a useful role in case of conflict. However, I don't think trying to configure the AOPS for ASuW with Harpoons makes any sense. Enemy surface combatants are unlikely to approach our coastlines in the face of US Naval and Air power and you're not going to deploy a big and slow AOPS forward where it can't keep up with an allied Task Group. In my opinion enemy submarines are likely the greatest threat to our coastlines.

The role I think makes most sense for AOPS in a conflict is ISR and MCM. A UAV like the CAMCOPTER S-300 has excellent range and endurance and can provide extended range visual and radar detection of surface vessels. It can also deploy sonobuoys which along with a containerized towed-array would make it another useful node in our ASW net.

In addition the AOPS could be a mother ship to deploy medium/large UUVs as part of that ASW net and also possibly service XLUUVs at sea in addition to being a communications node for these unmanned systems. MCM ROV's could also be deployed as required.

I'd also be in favour of C-UAV capabilities which might include upgrading the main gun to provide the option of airburst ammunition for use against drones. If an appropriate space on the ship could be found you could also possibly mount a "bolt-on" self defence system like a SeaRAM CIWS, MBDA's SPIMM or Safran's NGDS hard-kill/soft-kill launcher. Worst case and noted above MANPADS could be embarked.

I've often stated that I think AOPS is appropriately armed for what their current mission is and the likelihood of a foreign incursion of Russian Platforms in the Arctic is highly unlikely. That is until they launched their own version of AOPV's and we started to send the ships to the South China Sea. Now the Arctic is mainly where we'll see AOPS deploy and the likelihood of a task force integration are slim along with further deployments to the South China seas but it has happened and only recently. You might as well give them some tools, even fitted for and not with.

MCM will be one of the tasks AOPVs will probably be doing in a couple of years as the flagship of SNMCMG1. We are currently working out how that will work supporting other smaller ships.

45K views · 311 reactions | Russian Arctic Patrol ship Ivan Papanin operational | Royal Canadian Navy Today and Yesterday

 

[Stoker]

Helo's on CCG ships do ice recce, SAR search, ship to shore transfer of people and gear. I am unimpressed with the RCN that they can't resolve this issue in a timely manner.

They carry drones so Ice recce doesn't seem that big of an issue. SAR and transfer of people either. The MOU signed between the CCG and RCN would embark helo assets if needed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

They carry drones so Ice recce doesn't seem that big of an issue. SAR and transfer of people either. The MOU signed between the CCG and RCN would embark helo assets if needed.

Generally they carried the ice pilot with them who would make the call. It will be interesting to see if they can function as well with a drone field as they could in the front seat of a helicopter.

 

[Kirkhill]

I've often stated that I think AOPS is appropriately armed for what their current mission is and the likelihood of a foreign incursion of Russian Platforms in the Arctic is highly unlikely. That is until they launched their own version of AOPV's and we started to send the ships to the South China Sea. Now the Arctic is mainly where we'll see AOPS deploy and the likelihood of a task force integration are slim along with further deployments to the South China seas but it has happened and only recently. You might as well give them some tools, even fitted for and not with.

MCM will be one of the tasks AOPVs will probably be doing in a couple of years as the flagship of SNMCMG1. We are currently working out how that will work supporting other smaller ships.

45K views · 311 reactions | Russian Arctic Patrol ship Ivan Papanin operational | Royal Canadian Navy Today and Yesterday

View attachment 96458View attachment 96459

That bottom picture... a bit of a cluster isn't it?

A 17 knot Arctic ice-"breaker" teamed with a 44 knot Pacific island hopper?

 

[Stoker]

That bottom picture... a bit of a cluster isn't it?

A 17 knot Arctic ice-"breaker" teamed with a 44 knot Pacific island hopper?

The ship can actually go faster than 17 knots but just an example of using a ship where it otherwise wouldn't or shouldn't of been used. Will this happen again, probably not but I never thought we would see a AOPV in the South China sea. We might as well give them an expanded capability at some point.

 

[Stoker]

Generally they carried the ice pilot with them who would make the call. It will be interesting to see if they can function as well with a drone field as they could in the front seat of a helicopter.

Clearly they have as that's what they are doing.

 

[Kirkhill]

The ship can actually go faster than 17 knots but just an example of using a ship where it otherwise wouldn't or shouldn't of been used. Will this happen again, probably not but I never thought we would see a AOPV in the South China sea. We might as well give them an expanded capability at some point.

WW1 and WW2 both saw civilian yachts and trawlers pressed into service as patrol vessels. Any available weapon appropriate to the vessel was bolted on.

The LCS hulls have been upgunned. I don't see why similar arrangements couldn't be made for the AOPS.

And, for that matter, some of the CCG vessels. For wartime use by the RCNR.