Army.ca Ideology -- what is it?

[Ex-Dragoon]

i never said i was tough or that i wanted to use violence to solve the problems i have here...

It was implied by your posts though. This is why we want you folks to realize that you are responsible for what you post here....

 

[bossi]

... I don't think it's necessary to manage the site this way. Say a newbie makes XYZ claim, everyone can see from his experience in his personal information what it's based on, and they can take it for what its worth. Just like real life. Anyone is free to jump on him with their reasoning, or even laugh at his ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim. That's free speech. But if we go past this and block his right to say something, even if he is not the brightest bulb, then it is not free speech anymore. ...

Just like real life, if somebody said "It's fun to jump off a cliff" ... would you?
In real life, some impressionable people do.

Thus, just like in real life, it's sometimes necessary to say "Shut up.  Sit down.  Listen and learn." -  in the interest of brevity, both in real life and here - due to ADD, or impending death this can take many shapes and forms (e.g. "LOOK OUT!" ... or ... "DUCK!" ... or ... "GET DOWN!" ... you get my drift?)

In real life, sometimes "free speech" results in Darwinian selection (e.g. "Gee - that sounds like incoming - I think I'll stand up in the open and have a look ...")

As also pointed out, almost everybody who posts here is human - thus, mistakes will be made.

 

[strongchristian]

touché! yes, people do jump off cliffs even now, sad as it is.

As for me, I found out yesterday I did good on my CFAT but I'm getting an enhanced reliability check because I've spent too much time abroad.  I won't tell you how long its supposed to take.  Oh well, peace out...

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

I think the biggest issue here with people making unsupported claims, and providing info with the impression that they have experience with the topic (often they dont) is that, a lot of people DO look at this site as an official DND website, whether it really is or not. With that said, a "Newbie" isnt going to know who is and who isnt speaking from accurate experience and concrete information. The mods jobs are to keep such things in check, so the only info being provided and passed around is accurate, or at least sorted out.

Secondly, as was said before. Militaryphotos.com, need i say more?

Thirdly, the mods are human as are the rest of us. Some of these guys have been kicking around here since hydro was invented, so suffice to say their patience well has run a little shallow for those who post in here like its some Gaming Forum.

Even EA Games forums employs the Search Function ffs...

 

[Manimal]

It was implied by your posts though. This is why we want you folks to realize that you are responsible for what you post here....

i never implied that i wanted to use violence. i reread what i wrote to make sure...
what i did say is that i'd like to see that attitude stand up in the real world.

 

[Old Ranger]

Wow! This thread should be required reading!

It is refreshing to see the Staff here do such an excellent job.
I've even learned to bite my tongue alittle, reading other threads.

Thanks for a Great Website!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

i never implied that i wanted to use violence. i reread what i wrote to make sure...
what i did say is that i'd like to see that attitude stand up in the real world.

My point still stands....you acted like a tough guy on here and got called on it.

yeah, i've been belittled by the staff too. called a kid, told to shut my trap, both in PM and on the board.
what gets me, these guys wouldn't talk to me on the street like this!

If you were talking out of your anus in person or on here I would challenge you on it, from your post you imply that no one would dare speak to you in that manner, which implies you would resort to violence.

and part of me wonders why they act so tuff on here?
mind you, others are professional, and to the point. there is a difference between being strict, and being an ***. some of the 'staff' give this place a bad name.

You can bet if Mike felt any of the Mods gave this forum a bad name like you imply some do, we would not be here.

 

[Burrows]

You can bet if Mike felt any of the Mods gave this forum a bad name like you imply some do, we would not be here.

It has been said time and time again,  if you have any problem at all with any moderator actions then you should contact Mike Bobbitt via PM and state why.  If the reason is valid we would recieve a reprimand.

Manimal,

Even if you don't mean to sound like like you want to cause violence it comes accross as it.  Remember,  impact over intent.

As bossi poointed out everyone is human and makes mistakes, moderators included.

Its not "lets pick on the new guys." it is "lets do what we are here to do.".  People with spotless records and a long time on the site and in the forces have been given verbals for lapses.  We don't let things slip.  This goes for everyone on the board.

 

[Manimal]

alright, didn't see/remember typing, 'talking to me on the street like that' i meant that in a talk to anyone like that. i don't feel that these people would speak to me, or anyone with attitude like some of them have given. so sorry for coming off like a dick! it wasn't intended

BUT!

when i talk to people, i give respect and i expect it back. but like many have said, here and in the CF you have to earn respect! well, i can respect that. and it should go both ways. directing staff are where they are for a reason, so respect should be given. and as pointed out, if they are out of line, take it up with Mike. taking it from your point of view, i'm just some wannabe, and may or may not carry through with anything, and with so many members, i bet there is a lot of shit that gets posted. so instead of whine and bitch about 'he hurt my feelings' either forget it, deal with it, or forget it. after all i'm here to learn, and i appreciate what help i've gotten. i guess i either prove myself, or not let it matter!
thanks for the revelation!

 

[Roy Harding]

...  i don't feel that these people would speak to me, or anyone with attitude like some of them have given. ...

Manimal:

Not to exacerbate the situation, or to ignore the remainder of your post.  But DON'T count on not being challenged in person in EXACTLY the way you've been challenged here, by some of the posters - should YOU show the attitude you had in some of your past posts.

Professional soldiers are, for the most part, "straight talkers" - whether on the internet, or in person.

And no, this is not a challenge - just something for you to chew on.

 

[Slim]

Alright, enough is enough.

Manimal, Springroll, Strongchristian

This has been debated before, over and over again, by every barrack room lawyer who comes down the pipe and gets in a snit cause the rest of the world doesn't fall all over themselves to agree with them

This thread is being locked, now, by me.

If you have a problem with that you can
A: PM me and we'll talk about it
B: Suck it up and soldier on
C: Stop posting.

Those are pretty much your options.

Later.......

I have been asked by a number of others to re-open this thread, so I'm going to.

Manimal, Springroll, Strongchristian...Tow the line. Patience is wearing rather thin around the command post as far as nonesense goes.

Slim
STAFF

 

[McG]

I know this is a private owned forum, but you have to take responsibility for those that you have join and how they treat the other members on here, regardless of CF experience or not.

I'm not certain who "you" refers to in this quote.   Is it the site staff or the members themselves?   Regardless, the site guidelines clearly tell members that they are responsible for their own actions:  

You are responsible for everything that you post and the tone in which it is posted.

(This one line para may be my favorite part of the guidelines)

On the topic of swift wrath against those presenting bad facts:

You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

On appearing professional at all times:

First and foremost, we're all representatives of the CF. We may not want to be, but ultimately, we don't have the luxury of choice. The truth is when you post a message even on an unofficial site like this, your comments reflect upon the CF. That's not to say we can't bemoan the current state of affairs - it's a soldier's age old right to complain. But let's keep it clean and dignified.

 

[sigpig]

so-sweeping-the-issue-under-the-rug?
what's-going-on?

Manimal, there is no issue to sweep under the rug. The moderators and senior members of this board have stated their position that they believe their policies are good and make this board better than others out there.

If you don't like it, too bad. Like so much else in life there is nothing you can do about it.

Note that I am not agreeing with their policies, just acknowledging them. I myself have stated I feel mods (and senior members) are too quick to lock threads and slam posters needlessly for starting threads that may have been covered elsewhere. And I have received the same feedback you did. Nothing will change as this is how 'they' want it. So stop beating yourself up about it and move on to different boards if you must.

I myself have become mostly a browser, trying to keep up a little on the military after I left it and Canada about seven years ago. I don't bother posting to anything potentially controversial as I know the reaction I will get. It's easier this way. I belong to other boards where I can say what I want without dealing with overzealous 'board police.' One of them is christianforums.com - and I'm an atheist    I feel more welcome there.

Anyway, enough of this drivel, I'm sure I'll get a nastygram for it. Just chill out guys and move on. It will be better for everyone involved.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Folks I know I am getting tired of saying it, I know the other Mods are and I am sure you are as well. If you have a problem with the way things are done at this site IM Mike Bobbitt and give examples.

SigPig so I guess you all for zero moderation then and by the sounds of your post you would prefer no rules or Guidelines to be followed. Well I got news for you, we will continue to Moderate this site according to the wishes of Mike Bobbitt and the majority of posters.

For those that agree that we should not have moderation or Guidelines then again militaryphotos.net is the place for you.

 

[sigpig]

[quote author=Ex-Dragoon]
Folks I know I am getting tired of saying it, I know the other Mods are and I am sure you are as well. If you have a problem with the way things are done at this site IM Mike Bobbitt and give examples.[/quote]

I don't worry about it enough to do that. Besides from what I have read of his posts expressing his support for the way the moderators operate I have no doubt that my opinion is in variance with his, and him being the owner - wins. I have no problem with that.

[quote author=Ex-Dragoon]SigPig so I guess you all for zero moderation then and by the sounds of your post you would prefer no rules or Guidelines to be followed.[/quote]

I don't recall proposing zero moderation, just a less heavy handed approach than goes on here. I've seen enough people express the same thought to know that I'm not being crazy here. Other people have come here with different internet experiences, seen what goes on here - and said what's hapenning? Threads locked daily, verbal warnings, don't post without checking to see if it's been done before.

[quote author=Ex-Dragoon]Well I got news for you, we will continue to Moderate this site according to the wishes of Mike Bobbitt and the majority of posters.[/quote]

That's not news, I wouldn't expect anything different. I just got tired of seeing the others get slammed for expressing views that I agree with so I piped up. I didn't expect anything to change, just wanted to let the others know they weren't alone in their views. Now that we agree everyone is tired of the same thing lets close the thread, not much more positive can develop.

Maybe on the sign up page a paragraph can be made, that has to be acknowledged, explaining that this board is policed more stringently than many internet sites. If newcomers know what to expect they may not be surprised by what goes on, or may realize this is not the site for them and save everyone some bother.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Maybe on the sign up page a paragraph can be made, that has to be acknowledged, explaining that this board is policed more stringently than many internet sites

Now that is a real good suggestion. Thank you.

 

[paracowboy]

speaking of other internet sites, this is one of the "least-moderated" sites I belong to. I post on USParatroopers.org, SOCNET, ArmyRanger.com, among others, and the silliness that is tolerated here would NEVER be on any of those.

 

[Springroll]

speaking of other internet sites, this is one of the "least-moderated" sites I belong to. I post on USParatroopers.org, SOCNET, ArmyRanger.com, among others, and the silliness that is tolerated here would NEVER be on any of those.

The other ones I am on are barely moderated(only when absolutely necessary)...but then again they do not have a huge amount of people to worry about like this forum. One of them has 40 members with only about 20 of us as regular posters and the other has a huge amount of people(1400) but only about 15 or 20 regular posters there too.

I figure that is why I was having problems when I first started here. I was not used to it.

 

[LF(CMO)]

Manimal, there is no issue to sweep under the rug. The moderators and senior members of this board have stated their position that they believe their policies are good and make this board better than others out there.

If you don't like it, too bad. Like so much else in life there is nothing you can do about it.

Note that I am not agreeing with their policies, just acknowledging them. I myself have stated I feel mods (and senior members) are too quick to lock threads and slam posters needlessly for starting threads that may have been covered elsewhere. And I have received the same feedback you did. Nothing will change as this is how 'they' want it. So stop beating yourself up about it and move on to different boards if you must.

I myself have become mostly a browser, trying to keep up a little on the military after I left it and Canada about seven years ago. I don't bother posting to anything potentially controversial as I know the reaction I will get. It's easier this way. I belong to other boards where I can say what I want without dealing with overzealous 'board police.' One of them is christianforums.com - and I'm an atheist     I feel more welcome there.

Anyway, enough of this drivel, I'm sure I'll get a nastygram for it. Just chill out guys and move on. It will be better for everyone involved.

Yea, Sig you've pretty well expessed my sentiments exactly.  I've come to the same conclusion.  That's the way it is; just accept it or stay away!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The site is moderated the way it is because it was an absolute free for all when it started. It would have never have survived to this day to become the premier site for Canadian Military information that it has. Guidelines have been constantly modified added to and removed as the board evolves, Springroll mentions a board she visits with a HUGE amount of members, totaling 1400. This board has a membership approaching 8000, plus a large amount of visitors. The vast majority of members here have little or no problem with the way the board is policed, but there's always a few that don't think rules apply to them. The same will be found in any organization, live or internet. To paraphrase Mr Spock " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few." The reasons for the way we moderate have been stated, again. If you want to post to a locked thread, do a PM with the reason why and we'll see. Got a complaint? Try reslove it outside the forums. Just like the military, you can take it up the chain, one step at a time, to Mr Bobbit, the ultimate authority.

Finally and most simply, this house belongs to Mr Bobbit. His house, his rules. If you don't like the party, there's always another one down the road. We would no more allow rude and ill mannered children to run amok in this house, than your grandmother would allow in hers.