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So the CO has to patrol all sites that their troops frequent? That's unfair to them.
they need to ensure the leaders in their units are enforcing the standard of conduct expected of CAF members.
So the CO has to patrol all sites that their troops frequent? That's unfair to them.
When?You are responsible for the conduct of your soldiers.
When?
Consider the Class A environment. When, specifically, is a Reserve Unit CO responsible for the conduct of their soldiers? 24/7? 18/6? 1 night and one weekend a month? When it is convenient for somebody at higher level to deflect blame and look like they are acting?
I am being a bit flippant, but I cannot help marvel at the practical obstacles for a Reserve Unit investigator to, somehow, take a file the MPs did not want to deal with, compel access to a private facebook group, collect evidence, and then assess legal culpability on acts that may have occurred 10-15 years ago.
But yeah, let’s go with “the current CO is at fault”. The current CO might be to blame- I don’t know. I am just in awe of how difficult a problem this is.
Ok.I think this is a failure at multiple levels. It became a work environment once official business - the job postings - started going on it. Once that happens it becomes some one’s job to police it - and it’s a COs job to ensure the other leaders in a unit are doing their job. So ultimately it does fall on the CO.
Ok.
Is Army.ca policeable by the CAF?
This leaves a big factual question as to whether Blue Hackle crossed the line into "official" or not. I expect there are several hundred opinions on that already, all of them formed without adequate knowledge of the totality of the facts.Exclusions
4.3 Internet sites that publicize the activities of informal associations or informal groups of DND employees, CF members, dependents or other affiliated individuals do not fall within the scope of this DAOD.
4.4 DND employees and CF members involved in creating or maintaining these unofficial sites must ensure that these sites are in no way understood to officially represent DND or the CAF.
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“Something must be done!”
“Something must be done!” 13 July 2025 This blog is brought to you by the letters “F” (for “fear”) and “A” (for “appearances”) – or, alternatively, the letter “O” (for “optics”), although I‘m not a fan of the use of the term “optics” when what we really mean are “appearances” – and by the...roryfowlerlaw.com
Probably a good reminder of why if you have any sort of serious career in the private sector, you should probably stay FAR AWAY from the CAF.I would maybe give this some time to play out and for facts to emerge before shitting on the guy. The MPs punted it to the unit, and given the fact set - the datedness of most of what was there, the challenge in asserting CSD applicability to much of it, the evidentiary challenges of a third party complainant pulling screenshots from a private Facebook group, concretely putting specific individuals behind keyboards… Whoever caught this UDI as the investigating officer was fed a shit sandwich and I don’t know how they would have choked it down. Even a succesful UDI would leave significant challenges of how best to apply the CSD given the age of some of the posts we’ve seen.
I know the CO in question. Yes, a good guy which is nice, but also an excellent soldier, and a very experienced executive level leader outside of the PRes. I would be surprised if a full look at the facts were ultimately to conclude that the failure was his.
Anyway, I’m sure this isn’t done with. I hope that, having symbolically and temporarily relieved the CO, CAF now feels it has the time to slow down slightly and really properly assess just what this all is.
There was a time in the US Army towards the end of Vietnam and for a good time thereafter where the best officers avoided taking command positions in favour of staff positions. The simple truth was that as a commander you were held responsible for everything that happened in your command and would be dumped on for it - it was virtually inevitable. Staff officers on the other hand could cozy up to their leaders, be responsible for no one - just the quality of their staff work - and get terrific performance reviews that would ensure their climb in rank and ever better staff jobs. Overt steps were taken in the '80s to reverse that trend - not sure if it ever fully succeeded.Probably a good reminder of why if you have any sort of serious career in the private sector, you should probably stay FAR AWAY from the CAF.
Ok.
Is Army.ca policeable by the CAF?
So I wonder on that particular one. REO job opportunities are a public facing website. Is it any different from sharing job postings on jobs.gc.ca, or LinkedIn, or what have you? No information or data of business value is transmitted, no business carried out… It’s just ‘hey here’s a job’ and it gives official approved means to apply.Our conduct on army.ca absolutely is. Just like Facebook, instagram, and any other social media site is. The difference here is we’re largely anonymous. My point about the blue hackle group is that once you start posting “ looking a MCpl to work in the BOR” (that’s straight from a screen shot) you’ve now become a work place.
I can see it being a fairly easy and defensible RM. Making it an RM puts it officially on their pers file, in the event that something similar comes up again.I struggle to see how they’re going to justify hitting people with remedial measures for something most of a decade ago in some cases if there’s been nothing remotely recent by that individual.
Any IC or RW would block component transfer or in-service selection plans. C&P further blocks career courses and promotion. Is that reasonable and justified in the event of social media posts six or seven years ago if their conduct and performance has been acceptable since that time, likely including promotion or promotions?I can see it being a fairly easy and defensible RM. Making it an RM puts it officially on their pers file, in the event that something similar comes up again.
If the member has grown since the time of posting questionable material, meeting the monthly objectives should be quite easy.
The fact it came to light "today" means it needs to be dealt with "today". I'm quite comfortable with someone needing to wait a few extra months for a CT if they posted terrible things 6 years ago. If the member is serious about owning their behavior, and showing they are changed, they should be fine with it too.Any IC or RW would block component transfer or in-service selection plans. C&P further blocks career courses and promotion. Is that reasonable and justified in the event of social media posts six or seven years ago if their conduct and performance has been acceptable since that time, likely including promotion or promotions?
Don’t get me wrong, anything reasonably recent, have at ‘er. I’m just not sure the system has a good option for some of this if there’s a clear and compelling case to be made that troops who did something stupid many years ago, and only recently ‘detected’, have since matured and have not otherwise had conduct or performance deficiencies. IMO this would have to be assessed case by case.
I concur that it's unprecedented; I am not sanguine that it is necessarily unique.I suppose if leadership types were in there, active and knew about things that are contrary to CAF values, I could see RMs being used.
If any of them lied or were uncooperative during the investigation that could also be an issue.
What ever happens, this is likely a very unique case with a lot of unprecedented aspects.
I curated my own FB page several times as I grew older, matured, assumed leadership positions of greater responsibility and saw the world changing around me.Any IC or RW would block component transfer or in-service selection plans. C&P further blocks career courses and promotion. Is that reasonable and justified in the event of social media posts six or seven years ago if their conduct and performance has been acceptable since that time, likely including promotion or promotions?
Don’t get me wrong, anything reasonably recent, have at ‘er. I’m just not sure the system has a good option for some of this if there’s a clear and compelling case to be made that troops who did something stupid many years ago, and only recently ‘detected’, have since matured and have not otherwise had conduct or performance deficiencies. IMO this would have to be assessed case by case.
I agree. Our posts here are subject various social media DAODs. Most of us are probably not as anonymous as we think we are.Our conduct on army.ca absolutely is. Just like Facebook, instagram, and any other social media site is. The difference here is we’re largely anonymous. My point about the blue hackle group is that once you start posting “ looking a MCpl to work in the BOR” (that’s straight from a screen shot) you’ve now become a work place.
Or they posted as a Pte 10 years ago and complete forgot about it. It might mean they still think it is ok.I curated my own FB page several times as I grew older, matured, assumed leadership positions of greater responsibility and saw the world changing around me.
I suppose I would argue that the fact that some of these posts have remained visible for years means that the members see nothing wrong with them, which I would also argue makes them ‘recent’ and worthy of RM consideration.
Remedial Measures
4.7 Remedial measures are part of the range of administrative actions which may be initiated in respect of a CAF member and are intended to:
a. make the CAF member aware of any conduct or performance deficiency
b. assist the CAF member in overcoming the deficiency; and
c. provide the CAF member with time to correct their conduct or improve their performance.
5.1 A remedial measure may be initiated if there is clear and convincing evidence that establishes on a balance of probabilities that a CAF member has demonstrated:
a. conduct deficiency based on an applicable standard of conduct; or
b. performance deficiency whereby, over a reasonable period of time, the CAF member has not met the applicable standard of performance.
The fact it came to light "today" means it needs to be dealt with "today". I'm quite comfortable with someone needing to wait a few extra months for a CT if they posted terrible things 6 years ago. If the member is serious about owning their behavior, and showing they are changed, they should be fine with it too.
The fact that the event was long ago, and hadn't been repeated shpuld not be a major issue moving forward, unless the CA hasn't found a way to come to grips with the reality that young people do dumb things. The RCN seems to have found a reasonable stance, so I suspect the Jr. services should be able to manage as well.
I curated my own FB page several times as I grew older, matured, assumed leadership positions of greater responsibility and saw the world changing around me.
I suppose I would argue that the fact that some of these posts have remained visible for years means that the members see nothing wrong with them, which I would also argue makes them ‘recent’ and worthy of RM consideration.
I concur that it's unprecedented; I am not sanguine that it is necessarily unique.