Army Reserve Restructuring

[Brad Sallows]

Doesn't the USNG manage to staff sub-units in places where the only game in town is, say, driver in a transport company?

 

[MilEME09]

The main reason was that the average A Res soldier is a student and can not reasonably be expected to take two weekends away from their studies, or other employment/ life commitments.

And yet we do when re run courses constantly on weekends, which burn through our people who then dont wanna take their entire summers off to teach either

 

[FJAG]

You presume correctly. The ARNG might be able to, maybe we should be able to, but is the juice worth the squeeze? Per dollar/PY spent there's way bigger opportunities and higher priorities than finding homes for/ treating everyone the same.

That al depends on how you allocate those PYs. I'm a fab of heavy summer training and having only a weekend per month for ResF training during the winter. I wouldn't have one PY in use there full-time - a clerk/storeman who looks after administration and as a recruiting office. . I'd do it as a 10/90 set up with the 10% PY serving with a battalion located within 2 hours of that armoury. They'd basically just go out to be with the reserve unit on training weekends.

I knew you would raise this point, but I counter with the end state of that program (if resourced properly) leaving us with 6x (Edm, Shilo, Pet, Val x2, Gagetown) Reinforced mechanized BG's to force generate for Europe. The reserves wouldn't be expanding the force in terms of unit count, but would in terms of overall depth and capabilty. if they provide an extra line coy, a mortar platoon, a AT platoon, 2nd Armoured and Engineering Squadron, 2nd gun bty, per BG, that's a significant heavy oriented reserve contribution, already requiring massive investment to equip.

Absolutely. The problem with our bases is that they are in the middle of nowhere. Over half your ARes strength lie in the London to Quebec City corridor. Only Quebec City lies remotely close to a base. There is nothing that prevents the London to Montreal crowd from training on mech equipment - especially LAVs and the cursed TAPV. Even tanks can be trained with in Meaford - maybe not main calibre live fire but most of the basic training can be conducted there and a course flown from Toronto to Shilo in two hours for live fire battle runs if you place some tanks there..

IMHO the army makes too many excuses for why things can't be done. Most of the solutions are simple. It's the old saying about the mountain and Mohammad. Southern Ontario and Quebec have the mass of Res. We shouldn't write them off to some simple light infantry role just because it's easy. The army needs mech infantry, tankers and gunners in Latvia. If we don't want to burn out the RegF battalions in rotations there then we better start training reservists to help with the heavy lifting.

Doesn't the USNG manage to staff sub-units in places where the only game in town is, say, driver in a transport company?

Yes, but most of those are in the US Army Reserve which is not a state national guard but a direct federal reserve force. The USAR is mostly oriented to combat support and combat service support.

 

[daftandbarmy]

And yet we do when re run courses constantly on weekends, which burn through our people who then dont wanna take their entire summers off to teach either

Then we should probably develop a model that doesn't rely so heavily on the patriotism and good will of the nation's high school seniors and first year college students, IMHO

 

[MilEME09]

Then we should probably develop a model that doesn't rely so heavily on the patriotism and good will of the nation's high school seniors and first year college students, IMHO

Or a training model that doesn't rely heavily on the Res force to train it self to the point of breaking? I've heard some success with the civilian company Calian, outsourcing driver training, and other small courses which can take a lot of strain off ARes units.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Or a training model that doesn't rely heavily on the Res force to train it self to the point of breaking? I've heard some success with the civilian company Calian, outsourcing driver training, and other small courses which can take a lot of strain off ARes units.

I agree! It's a self-defeating paradigm...

 

[MilEME09]

I agree! It's a self-defeating paradigm...

I know, all those ARes class Bs? Pull them all back to the battle schools, make training a full time contract. Want us to train our selves? Fine but that's a full time job.

 

[Furniture]

I know, all those ARes class Bs? Pull them all back to the battle schools, make training a full time contract. Want us to train our selves? Fine but that's a full time job.

I find it cute that people think the people filling HQ jobs, and other odd jobs will be immediately available to be "proper" ResF instructors.

 

[MilEME09]

I find it cute that people think the people filling HQ jobs, and other odd jobs will be immediately available to be "proper" ResF instructors.

Not over night no, but we need to be honest about the point of class Bs, filling thr void of not enough PYs in reg force establishments. We need to rob Peter to pay Paul here. Short term night be some pain, but we need the schools at 100% staffing if we want to get ourselves out of this Mess.

 

[FJAG]

I find it cute that people think the people filling HQ jobs, and other odd jobs will be immediately available to be "proper" ResF instructors.

No! No! No! I just want to fire 25% of them and free up the money for ARes equipment and training.

 

[MilEME09]

No! No! No! I just want to fire 25% of them and free up the money for ARes equipment and training.

I'll do you one better, eliminate 4 division HQs, use that money else where

 

[Furniture]

Not over night no, but we need to be honest about the point of class Bs, filling thr void of not enough PYs in reg force establishments. We need to rob Peter to pay Paul here. Short term night be some pain, but we need the schools at 100% staffing if we want to get ourselves out of this Mess.

No! No! No! I just want to fire 25% of them and free up the money for ARes equipment and training.

So long as we all have a realistic understanding.

There is no magic "pull the ResF back to the ResF" wand to be waved... Shortages will still exist, you're just adjusting those shortages slightly, and perhaps not for the long term benefit of the CAF/ResF.

 

[MilEME09]

So long as we all have a realistic understanding.

There is no magic "pull the ResF back to the ResF" wand to be waved... Shortages will still exist, you're just adjusting those shortages slightly, and perhaps not for the long term benefit of the CAF/ResF.

Keeping the schools at 60% and having people spend entire contracts in PAT platoons doesn’t benefit the CAF either. The CDS and others claim we are reconstituting but you can't do that while undertaking the operations we are at our manning levels. What we needed was a 1 year operational pause and every unit gives up 25% of its instructors to the schools. Then you get rid of one back log.

 

[Furniture]

Keeping the schools at 60% and having people spend entire contracts in PAT platoons doesn’t benefit the CAF either. The CDS and others claim we are reconstituting but you can't do that while undertaking the operations we are at our manning levels. What we needed was a 1 year operational pause and every unit gives up 25% of its instructors to the schools. Then you get rid of one back log.

What schools are at 60%? All schools are the top VCDS priority. If the school is short it's 90% likely because there aren't enough actual humans to fill the jobs. Pulling a CE MWO from a RegF job won't make a RCEME MCpl to teach MSVS driver courses.

 

[FJAG]

I'll do you one better, eliminate 4 division HQs, use that money else where

I'd be satisfied with just eliminating three div hqs.

So long as we all have a realistic understanding.

There is no magic "pull the ResF back to the ResF" wand to be waved... Shortages will still exist, you're just adjusting those shortages slightly, and perhaps not for the long term benefit of the CAF/ResF.

I guess we'll never know. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell of ever reducing the size of the Ottawa bureaucracy until after the last field unit, ship and airplane are gone.

 

[Furniture]

I'd be satisfied with just eliminating three div hqs.

I guess we'll never know. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell of ever reducing the size of the Ottawa bureaucracy until after the last field unit, ship and airplane are gone.

1:56 nails NDHQ. It's what I hear every time someone suggests a new working group...

 

[KevinB]

Doesn't the USNG manage to staff sub-units in places where the only game in town is, say, driver in a transport company?

Yes, however our population density is 10x+ yours, so if you don’t want to be in Field Artillery unit, you can drive 45min to be in an Infantry, Engineer, or Armor unit.
The only units that have major geographical challenges are 19th and 20th Group which are the ARNG SF Groups.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No! No! No! I just want to fire 25% of them and free up the money for ARes equipment and training.

I'll do you one better, eliminate 4 division HQs, use that money else where

And then we will complain that none of the staff work that keeps the wheels turning is getting done.

Just be honest about what an ARes soldier is capable of and train them to that. It's a great idea that the Res and Regs should get the same quals, but is it practical or possible even ?

Unless it course we what to establish some legislation around reservists and job protection.

 

[Eaglelord17]

For the more distant locations I think if we really wanted to, we could create opportunities thanks to technology.

Do they really have to be part of a specific unit? Why not have ‘units’ based off the idea you get trained (say a 1 year class B contract) then are remote. They would have the option to take on taskings as they appear with a once a year requirement to be sent on whatever large exercise is run in the area with the individual being attached to a unit.

As career courses come up they would be offered to the member but at the end of the day said member is already trade qualified so they wouldn’t need any more if they chose not to take anymore.

Something along those lines might be expecially valuable for the skilled trades as they would be essentially maintaining and improving their skills civvy side well still available if we need them. It would also remove much of the admin for them as you wouldn’t be managing a ton of parade nights, etc. and you wouldn’t need to have armouries and units in the middle of nowhere.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Absolutely. The problem with our bases is that they are in the middle of nowhere. Over half your ARes strength lie in the London to Quebec City corridor. Only Quebec City lies remotely close to a base. There is nothing that prevents the London to Montreal crowd from training on mech equipment - especially LAVs and the cursed TAPV. Even tanks can be trained with in Meaford - maybe not main calibre live fire but most of the basic training can be conducted there and a course flown from Toronto to Shilo in two hours for live fire battle runs if you place some tanks there..

IMHO the army makes too many excuses for why things can't be done. Most of the solutions are simple. It's the old saying about the mountain and Mohammad. Southern Ontario and Quebec have the mass of Res. We shouldn't write them off to some simple light infantry role just because it's easy. The army needs mech infantry, tankers and gunners in Latvia. If we don't want to burn out the RegF battalions in rotations there then we better start training reservists to help with the heavy lifting.

But when you really look at those category A sites and apply the lens allowed by a 3+ hour drive/ weekend per month training scheme it becomes clear that the first bold is an overly pessimistic assessment. Loose and very conservative numbers:

Edmonton -2.7mm person catchment area
Shilo (Winnipeg to Regina) - 1.1mm person catchment area
Pet- (Kingston East)- 1.2mm
Val - 5.5mm
Gagetown-1.7mm

~3.8mm for 1 CMBG, 2.9 for 2CMBG*, 5.5mm for 5CMBG
* Beef up with some Anglo units from Montreal?

That's 12+ million Canadians, the better part of 6 of the 10 CMBG's, and a large part of the London-Quebec City corridor, already within reasonable distance of bases with the infrastructure, RegF maintenance support, and training areas to support reserve mech and help make this transition. That's a lot of capacity for reserve mech inf, tankers, and gunners (call it 12x Inf, 6x Armd, 6x Arty, 6x Eng sub units) accommodated more easily (or pessimistically- just in a manner that's possible for us). That's a massive expansion of our heavy force.

The second bold- I think we're talking about two very different light infantry formations. I'm certainly not thinking of a "Light Infantry Bde" consisting of a bunch under resourced legs with nothing but rifles and GPMG's and no purpose other than existing and domops. I have my ideas of what it would look like, but in any case it would be neither a write off or a simple role. There are enough different jobs that need doing

I'm going to have trouble articulating this last point. There's nothing inherently wrong with accomplishing a hard thing the easy way. We should be able to have mech out of population centres. There are a lot of "should be able." But given the state the CA is in, if the choice is between

A- optimum/easier path to reserve integration and an acceptable Total Force
B- hard/ more expensive path to reserve integration and an optimal Total Force

I'd argue that B is a luxury we can't afford or expect