Army Reserve Restructuring

[FJAG]

No, it would not. As I understand, the "Mobilization Reserve" is intended to target those with skills of value, not individuals looking to join and learn. So fewer "I am a thoracic surgeon who wants to be an infanteer corporal on the weekend", and more "I am a diesel mechanic who is ready to employ my skills in support of the nation".

Fair enough. That's the failed venture from the early '00s. So its employment for a dozen Class Bs to spend money on advertising for such a group of people and keeping their status current.

The phrase "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" comes to mind.

Funny. I'm generally quite receptive to reserve force initiatives but this one just brings back memories of me pounding my forehead against the table at CRes&C council meetings.

 

[boredtoon]

The phrase "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" comes to mind.

Funny. I'm generally quite receptive to reserve force initiatives but this one just brings back memories of me pounding my forehead against the table at CRes&C council meetings.

I don't really get your gripe with the system. it's basically the Individual Ready Reserve system the americans use, but instead of for all trades, its for specific technical trades where a civilian can basically walk into the job with their existing quals.

 

[Kirkhill]

16(1)(c) doesn't do that and isn't useful in doing that.

the Constitution provides

This means that only the Feds can legislate on those matters. That is not to say that the Feds can't legislate a provision that creates some form of provincially controlled militia force but at the end of the day, even if that was done, the Feds could alter or shut down the force with their overriding constitutional legislative power.

The political question is: why would either the Feds or the provinces want this? There is no burning issue that any province is looking for the creation of a militia or other military force that they control (and would have to pay for) It's a non-starter, IMHO.

The other side of the equation.

The National Guard provides the states with more than military services. They also manage emergencies for the State as a priority issue. When they are available they are loaned out to the federal government.

At confederation our provinces may have transferred responsibility for the militia to the federal government but I suspect they expected to be supplied with the services that the militia, as embodied in the States by the National Guard, had traditionally provided.

State Governors, Provincial Governors and Lieutenants, and County Lords Lieutenant... all of them in an emergency, of any nature, not just military, had recourse to their citizenry in the form of the militia, armed or not.

Now Provinces must go beg to Ottawa for the services that the States access directly.

And they can expect to be told that that is not Ottawa's job but they will turn up for the photo-op.

Competing!

I can't help you. I have a war to train for.

 

[Kirkhill]

And yes you can run an army that way.

All you have to do is have a schedule and then stick to it. Then you can ask your deep pool of volunteers if some smaller fraction of them are willing to constrain the rest of their life and make themselves available for a limited period. Either full time or on call out.

 

[FJAG]

I don't really get your gripe with the system. it's basically the Individual Ready Reserve system the americans use, but instead of for all trades, its for specific technical trades where a civilian can basically walk into the job with their existing quals.

It's not the IRR. The US IRR system is like our SuppRes and retains on a list, and available for call up, former members of the active or reserve/NG services. They are known people with known qualifications and known physical conditions and security status.

An MRes list of specialists is worth nothing unless there is a capability to compel service. It's just a list. If there are enrollment and active service provisions then its better but you still need to find and manage such a list which, notwithstanding computers, is a major undertaking. At some point these folks need to be processed as recruits, their credentials checked and evaluated, their contact information confirmed on a continuing basis, and new qualifications evaluated.

As it stands, the reserves can't even manage their NES lists. And do we have a national civilian skills list for the reservists we already have. That to was one of those things that pops up every now and then when someone forgets the bright idea that petered out a previous generation ago.

We currently underuse the SuppRes system that we have; I have little faith that this works any better. And just to remind you, this concept was floated around in the early '00s and completely tanked for lack of interest when we were engaged in a war. There might be enthusiasm to fund and operate that today. Will there be tomorrow once a price tag and manpower slate is attached to it?

There are many things we could do to make the reserves more effective. This isn't one of them.

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's not the IRR. The US IRR system is like our SuppRes and retains on a list, and available for call up, former members of the active or reserve/NG services. They are known people with known qualifications and known physical conditions and security status.

An MRes list of specialists is worth nothing unless there is a capability to compel service. It's just a list. If there are enrollment and active service provisions then its better but you still need to find and manage such a list which, notwithstanding computers, is a major undertaking. At some point these folks need to be processed as recruits, their credentials checked and evaluated, their contact information confirmed on a continuing basis, and new qualifications evaluated.

As it stands, the reserves can't even manage their NES lists. And do we have a national civilian skills list for the reservists we already have. That to was one of those things that pops up every now and then when someone forgets the bright idea that petered out a previous generation ago.

We currently underuse the SuppRes system that we have; I have little faith that this works any better. And just to remind you, this concept was floated around in the early '00s and completely tanked for lack of interest when we were engaged in a war. There might be enthusiasm to fund and operate that today. Will there be tomorrow once a price tag and manpower slate is attached to it?

There are many things we could do to make the reserves more effective. This isn't one of them.

There are Ministries of Post-Sec Education, and others, in each Province that struggle to keep up lists of those who are qualified in critical occupations in various sectors up to date, many of whom received funding through provincial sources. And they have skilled full time staff on the job.

 

[boredtoon]

An MRes list of specialists is worth nothing unless there is a capability to compel service. It's just a list. If there are enrollment and active service provisions then its better but you still need to find and manage such a list which, notwithstanding computers, is a major undertaking. At some point these folks need to be processed as recruits, their credentials checked and evaluated, their contact information confirmed on a continuing basis, and new qualifications evaluated.

There is a capability to compel service. The same as any other reservist. A member of the MRes, who applies, and is enrolled, then completes modules of training to bring them to a point where they can be employed during a crisis is more than just a list.

As it stands, the reserves can't even manage their NES lists. And do we have a national civilian skills list for the reservists we already have. That to was one of those things that pops up every now and then when someone forgets the bright idea that petered out a previous generation ago.

What do you mean by this? There is no NES list. When a soldier becomes NES, a letter is sent to inform them that they need to parade or be released. There is no list to manage. it's one query in Guardian/Monitor Mass that pulls all NES pers and generates an NES letter.

We currently underuse the SuppRes system that we have; I have little faith that this works any better. And just to remind you, this concept was floated around in the early '00s and completely tanked for lack of interest when we were engaged in a war. There might be enthusiasm to fund and operate that today. Will there be tomorrow once a price tag and manpower slate is attached to it?

There are many things we could do to make the reserves more effective. This isn't one of them.

This isn't to make the reserves more effective. This is to provide a pool of conscriptable people with key skills that have undergone a baseline amount of training in the event of major crisis requiring mass mobilization. It's also different than the SuppRes. The SuppRes is for releasing trained members. The MRes will be for civilians to join off the street.

 

[MilEME09]

What do you mean by this? There is no NES list. When a soldier becomes NES, a letter is sent to inform them that they need to parade or be released. There is no list to manage. it's one query in Guardian/Monitor Mass that pulls all NES pers and generates an NES letter.

administratively actioning this is the problem, sure the letter gets sent, but it can be years right now before someone is actually released. We had someone put on the NES list in 2023, it wasn't till it made the news they were charged with murder this year that suddenly finishing the process was a priority

 

[childs56]

16(1)(c) doesn't do that and isn't useful in doing that.

Why would it not be?

How did they incorporate the Coast Guard into DND? They used a OIC.
Since the Milita act was absorbed into the NDA. I wonder if a province could stand up their own Defence Force? If not then what would stop a province form standing up a Security Force and arming them with Light Infantry style weapons?

the Constitution provides

This means that only the Feds can legislate on those matters. That is not to say that the Feds can't legislate a provision that creates some form of provincially controlled militia force but at the end of the day, even if that was done, the Feds could alter or shut down the force with their overriding constitutional legislative power.

In theory they could, but if a province stood up a security force and called it a police agency there is not much the Feds could do

The political question is: why would either the Feds or the provinces want this? There is no burning issue that any province is looking for the creation of a militia or other military force that they control (and would have to pay for) It's a non-starter, IMHO.

In response to the national guard comment above.

 

[MilEME09]

Why would it not be?

How did they incorporate the Coast Guard into DND? They used a OIC.
Since the Milita act was absorbed into the NDA. I wonder if a province could stand up their own Defence Force? If not then what would stop a province form standing up a Security Force and arming them with Light Infantry style weapons?

I seriously doubt the provinces would want to put the kind of capital or fiscal capacity needed for a canadian national guard

 

[boredtoon]

administratively actioning this is the problem, sure the letter gets sent, but it can be years right now before someone is actually released. We had someone put on the NES list in 2023, it wasn't till it made the news they were charged with murder this year that suddenly finishing the process was a priority

This is not an issue we seem to have down in my area. From letter to release, its consistently about 8-12 months, and most of that is the waiting periods between letter sent out, chance for them to come in, etc.

 

[Remius]

This is not an issue we seem to have down in my area. From letter to release, it’s consistently about 8-12 months, and most of that is the waiting periods between letter sent out, chance for them to come in, etc.

We have a release backlog as well. They maybe NES but they stay on the books a while.

 

[childs56]

I seriously doubt the provinces would want to put the kind of capital or fiscal capacity needed for a canadian national guard

Depends on the way it was approached to them I guess. Direct response to natural disasters, maybe have local resources to respond to floods and such. Might be attractive if a province could become sovereign and directly collect and use their own taxes to pay for their own resources/ services prior to sending the excess to Ottawa.

 

[boredtoon]

We have a release backlog as well. They maybe NES but they stay on the books a while.

Skill issue, as the young troops would call it. Again, we don't have that issue in my area. Half a dozen reserve units in the area and none of them have a release backlog of more than a handful who are more than a couple months removed from the date they handed in their memo.

 

[Kirkhill]

Why would it not be?

How did they incorporate the Coast Guard into DND? They used a OIC.
Since the Milita act was absorbed into the NDA. I wonder if a province could stand up their own Defence Force? If not then what would stop a province form standing up a Security Force and arming them with Light Infantry style weapons?

In theory they could, but if a province stood up a security force and called it a police agency there is not much the Feds could do

In response to the national guard comment above.

Register for the Nova Scotia Guard

Register to volunteer with the Nova Scotia Guard to help provide support during an emergency.

www.novascotia.ca

Reports to the Minister of Emergency Management.

I don't see any reason why other provinces couldn't go the same route and perhaps even support provincial sheriffs.

 

[MilEME09]

Skill issue, as the young troops would call it. Again, we don't have that issue in my area. Half a dozen reserve units in the area and none of them have a release backlog of more than a handful who are more than a couple months removed from the date they handed in their memo.

I wouldn't call it skill, its more an issue of not enough experienced clerks to handle release files, much of my OR for example are non clerk types

 

[Remius]

I wouldn't call it skill, its more an issue of not enough experienced clerks to handle release files, much of my OR for example are non clerk types

Not to mention reg force clerks having to learn reserve admin.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not to mention reg force clerks having to learn reserve admin.

A picture of that learning process

 

[MilEME09]

Not to mention reg force clerks having to learn reserve admin.

If only we created some kind of harmonized system.....no no that would never work

 

[RangerRay]

Is there any OECD or developed country where sub-national jurisdictions have their own militias, other than the US? I really don’t think there is any appetite in this country for provincial militias, other than from those who are separatist or separatist-curious.

If we’re looking for a new pool of “not quite military help for emergencies”, why don’t we look at expanding the Canadian Rangers in the south? My understanding is they provide that kind of service in the North.

There are also many other existing volunteer organizations like GSAR, Team Rubicon and local volunteer fire departments that provide that that service, but struggle like everyone else to find enough suitable volunteers and funding.