• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Army Reserve Restructuring

The gain is that people have some exposure to the CAF, and a basic understanding of military things...
Agreed. Assuming you get a broad enough group and can find the resources to actually deliver that training/exposure.
The more the reality of their CAF is exposed to people, the more likely people are to join. When people watch Full Metal Jacket and think that's the CAF, they tend to not want to take part or encourage their kids to take part.
It has to be a positive experience for people. I've run SYEP in the 70s out West, there was minimal uptake by ResF units - some but not a lot. More importantly in 5 days you can't teach what is being put forward here, not with any margin of safety.
Also, every week of training delivered in a non-emergency situation, is a week or two of training not needed in the middle of an emergency.
See @Brad Sallows comments about skill fade. I'll go one further. The CAF is not well known for taking into consideration an individuals previous experience when starting up anything, especially in an emergency. It's generally a sausage machine that treats everyone as a tyro.

I'm open on this initiative, but folks have to convince me with facts. Facts are in short supply.

🍻
 
The problem isn't the fact that after 80 years someone is finally "looking at it." The problem is that when, after 80years, DND is looking at an earth shaking defence initiative that entails a large change in direction for not only the military and the society then it behooves DND to have a proper communication plan that a) a need for a new way of looking at defence is needed that involves a larger portion of the population, b) we're starting broad consultations c) stay tuned - here's our public facing website.
So... to be clear, the CAF shouldn't discuss things until it has a completely funded, and properly sourced website?

The whole silliness was stirred up by a leak of discussions, which would lead to a plan.. Do you think the CAF needs to have a fully resourced section with a website before it can have discussions about options?

What are the chances that wouldn't get leaked to the press and that it wouldn't be ridiculed.
Zero... But that doesn't mean the CAF shouldn't be having these discussions. We don't live in the 80's anymore. Any person with a connection and a few moments to spare can share information.

And its not the press at fault. Let's not blame the messenger for exposing a poorly constructed message.
It wasn't a "message" it was a discussion between professionals that was shared without context, and without the discussion being resolved.

I'd just dust off the old SYEP and use the Res F framework.
I have 25 years of service, and have no idea what SYEP is beyond hearing my bosses talk about it back in the early 2000s... That is not a framework that is known, or relevant. It hasn't been relevant since the 80's when it ended.

I may have missed the conditions of continuing employment, but a week of training delivered and then not applied or practiced for months or years is a week of money wasted. Skill fade at least is going to be slower for a Reg F or Res F person on Supp List, and only provided (for the latter) that they spent a few years going over the same material.
It may come as surprise to some, but some things stick.

I haven't done firearms handling testing in a few years, but I can still manage to not kill myself with a C7.

What the CAF considers "perishable" and what is actually "perishable" isn't the same. There is also the reality that someone taught how to handle a C7 20 years ago is still ahead of a person who has never touched a rifle before in their life.

Too many of you are focused on the "perfect" solution, and refuse to accept that there are shades of "ready" and shades of "good enough".
 
So... to be clear, the CAF shouldn't discuss things until it has a completely funded, and properly sourced website?
C'mon. You know very well what I'm saying.
The whole silliness was stirred up by a leak of discussions, which would lead to a plan.. Do you think the CAF needs to have a fully resourced section with a website before it can have discussions about options?

Zero... But that doesn't mean the CAF shouldn't be having these discussions. We don't live in the 80's anymore. Any person with a connection and a few moments to spare can share information.

It wasn't a "message" it was a discussion between professionals that was shared without context, and without the discussion being resolved.
My reading of the articles is that it started with a 9 page directive starting up a Tiger team. It's titled "CDS/DM Planning Direction." That goes a bit beyond mere "discussions." But sure, let them have all the discussions they want. That said, this is a highly politically sensitive topic. All that I can say is that it needed a proper communication program from the day someone at Armed Forces Council said "Hey, I've got a thought . . . "
I have 25 years of service, and have no idea what SYEP is beyond hearing my bosses talk about it back in the early 2000s... That is not a framework that is known, or relevant. It hasn't been relevant since the 80's when it ended.
It's actually quite relevant. SYEP was a government funded work program for high school students. It ran for 6 weeks in the summer school break, had minimal physical fitness requirements and was run like as a kinder gentler Militia recruit course. Folks who graduated could join the militia - assuming the met the usual standards which at the time weren't onerous - and were given credit for recruit training but not TQ3 (ie full DP1). Both RegF and ARes units were employed as instructors. That's where my summer leave went one year and started me down the road to amassing bags of accumulated leave in the days when we could.

The primary purpose was to get some $ into the hands of students. The secondary and tertiary purpose was to engender some liking of the military life and lead to them potentially to join the RegF or Militia. It's pretty much the same idea but now being done at cut-rate prices.
It may come as surprise to some, but some things stick.

I haven't done firearms handling testing in a few years, but I can still manage to not kill myself with a C7.

What the CAF considers "perishable" and what is actually "perishable" isn't the same. There is also the reality that someone taught how to handle a C7 20 years ago is still ahead of a person who has never touched a rifle before in their life.

Too many of you are focused on the "perfect" solution, and refuse to accept that there are shades of "ready" and shades of "good enough".
Actually you are quite wrong. There's no hunt for a "perfect" solution amongst us here. We're quite prepared for a "good enough" but also it needs to be a program where the juice is worth the squeeze. When was the last time we ran a program for 80,000 more PRes and 300,000 New-Generation SuppRes? The resource bill will be enormous even without uniforms. For a force that is still over 10,000 understrength and can't seem to accelerate into a proper training surge because it can barely meet its operational commitments and its schools a re understaffed . . .

But more importantly is the "what's next" after their 5 days. I can see these folks as security guards at various vital installations - that requires an add on training package. What about anti-drone sentries around airfields or vital points operating a variety of anti drone weaponry including kinetic ones. Equipment? Storage and maintenance for the equipment? Record keeping? And that's just the 300,000. The 80,000 PRes (if that even is the right number) is a challenge of several higher magnitudes. The NPAM was authorized at 6 inf div and a few armoured bdes after WW2 but before Korea they were down to under 50,000 even though there was still a good bit of equipment around.

But the argument about whether the training is good enough, isn't the point. The question of whether such a force is needed, isn't the point.

The point is that the communication plan was an amateur hour production on a topic of earth shattering importance. The CDS should have led the way before the leak. And once it was sprung and the "public service" fiasco made its rounds (and the Brainiac that put that into the directive should be looking for a new job) there should have immediately been a news conference led by the CDS and DM to set the record straight on where they were heading and what stage they were at. What we got was a bad superficial CTV interview in front of the memorial on Remembrance Day that was anything but helpful. I'm seeing a leadership turtle with its head tucked deep into its shell. I expect better.

🍻
 
It may come as surprise to some, but some things stick.

I haven't done firearms handling testing in a few years, but I can still manage to not kill myself with a C7.

What the CAF considers "perishable" and what is actually "perishable" isn't the same. There is also the reality that someone taught how to handle a C7 20 years ago is still ahead of a person who has never touched a rifle before in their life.

Too many of you are focused on the "perfect" solution, and refuse to accept that there are shades of "ready" and shades of "good enough".
Things like First Aid for example could be taught. Also an incentive. Free first course. Valid for three years.
 
The more the reality of their CAF is exposed to people, the more likely people are to join. When people watch Full Metal Jacket and think that's the CAF, they tend to not want to take part or encourage their kids to take part.
Alternatively there is also a lot of people who watch FMJ and want that, only to discover it isn’t like that and leave.
 
If the goal is to have a pool of many thousand people available to guard important infrastructure facilities and the like, where would be to stockpile of kit and weapons ready for them to do that? Or is the expectation that they will stand around in their own clothes carrying broomsticks until that is all sorted out?

In a reported five days of training, how much of any one topic could be imparted? While it is true that the basics of weapons handling might be remembered 10 years down the road, I would be concerned with adequate knowledge of the authority to use it. Will so-called 'citizen soldiers' deployed to multiple locations be expected to be under command of Reg/Res members? Where will they come from to babysit essentially green volunteers?

Services like Neighbourhood Watch and VFF are local matters - not national security, and VFFs get a whole lot more training than a couple of days.
 
If the goal is to have a pool of many thousand people available to guard important infrastructure facilities and the like, where would be to stockpile of kit and weapons ready for them to do that? Or is the expectation that they will stand around in their own clothes carrying broomsticks until that is all sorted out?

In a reported five days of training, how much of any one topic could be imparted? While it is true that the basics of weapons handling might be remembered 10 years down the road, I would be concerned with adequate knowledge of the authority to use it. Will so-called 'citizen soldiers' deployed to multiple locations be expected to be under command of Reg/Res members? Where will they come from to babysit essentially green volunteers?

Services like Neighbourhood Watch and VFF are local matters - not national security, and VFFs get a whole lot more training than a couple of days.

I think people need to stop thinking we’d deploy people with only 5 days of training. It’s a pool of pre qualified and processed people that can be called up to save time.

I see them as a third wave that will get what they need training wise while the first and second waves are deployed.

What this would give us is less time needed processing and would have rudimentary things that could be written off when the time comes. Even better if they have skills we can use.
 
Last edited:
That can happen. Another complication is that many of the returning RegF folks after a tour went on leave in short order anyway so it's pretty much six of one and half a dozen of the other.

There's a key area where the CAF needed to concentrate on and that is post-tour administration including medical assistance for reservists. For the most part returning reservists are located in cities or towns where such services aren't provided. In some cases, even if there was a facility, the staff there (since they weren't at one of the six or so major military bases used to dealing with deployed regulars) the staff had little in the way of information as to how to deal with reservists.

I have no idea if or how the system has improved since organizations are quick to forget wartime lessons when war stops.

🍻
It has not improved IMO (at least in 5XX)
 
I think people need to stop thinking we’d deploy people with only 5 days of training. It’s a pool of pre qualified and processed people that can be called up to save time.

I see them as a third wave that will get what they need training wise while the first and second waves are deployed.

What this would give us is less time needed processing and would have rudimentary things that could be written off when the time comes. Even better if they have skills we can use.
But even if 'deploy' is only in the domestic sense, if I'm vetted and trained (to whatever expected levels) next week, what is the enduring value of that 10 years from now? I could have a heart condition, peg leg and be an axe murderer by then. I just strikes me as a massive bureaucracy for little real benefit. The worst thing you can do with volunteers is not utilize them. Interest and enthusiasm wane quick. I would imagine when the call finally went out, a lot of the responses would be 'did I'?
 
But even if 'deploy' is only in the domestic sense, if I'm vetted and trained (to whatever expected levels) next week, what is the enduring value of that 10 years from now? I could have a heart condition, peg leg and be an axe murderer by then. I just strikes me as a massive bureaucracy for little real benefit. The worst thing you can do with volunteers is not utilize them. Interest and enthusiasm wane quick. I would imagine when the call finally went out, a lot of the responses would be 'did I'?

But then you can then arrest them and compel them to attend as required ;)
 
Perhaps if you were to look at this planning guidance along the the lines of “Conscription if necessary but not necessarily conscription” it makes more sense.

It could be a means using existing NDA ARAs to attempt to do something like what Germany is doing. Just without having to say that, nor have a national conversation about it (as it’s all voluntary and just something that the CAF is doing with its SupRes). Hence the Trg and structure for use aren’t actually important to the objective.

 
But even if 'deploy' is only in the domestic sense, if I'm vetted and trained (to whatever expected levels) next week, what is the enduring value of that 10 years from now? I could have a heart condition, peg leg and be an axe murderer by then. I just strikes me as a massive bureaucracy for little real benefit. The worst thing you can do with volunteers is not utilize them. Interest and enthusiasm wane quick. I would imagine when the call finally went out, a lot of the responses would be 'did I'?
But an annual verification akin to an APRV could happen. 5 days a year to verify, update, retrain or supplement training.

Risk management would be required as it is now with reservists on things like Medicals and dentals etc…
 
Back
Top