Artillery Officer Merged Thread

[Old Sweat]

At the risk of over-simplification, most officers are not on the gun line as you call it, although gun position is more correct. A regular field regiment has two gun batteries, a STA battery (for locating enemy artillery and finding other stuff,) a FOO battery that provides all the observers for the regiment and a headquarters battery, along with a regimental headquarters. There are four gun troops, each with two officers in the rank of 2nd lieutenant to captain. The other thirty-plus are doing other things, from commanding STA organizations to providing observation, liaison and fire support coordination at all levels from combat team to brigade headquarters, and of course some are involved in administration.

 

[Teen_Cadet]

Okay thanks. That's a lot of information but it answered my question very well. So, how may soldiers and guns are in one gun troop? And is that where most junior officers are? Since you mentioned from second lieutenant to captain being in charge.

 

[Old Sweat]

It has been a very long time since I have been on a gun position, but basically a troop that went to Afghanistan would have had two guns, two officers, seven or eight vehicles and something less than thirty all ranks. It is a great job for a junior officer and I enjoyed myself immensely doing it decades and decades ago, labeit under different conditions and with a slightly different organization - two officers, four guns, eight vehicles and about forty troops.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

It has been a very long time since I have been on a gun position, but basically a troop that went to Afghanistan would have had two guns, two officers, seven or eight vehicles and something less than thirty all ranks. It is a great job for a junior officer and I enjoyed myself immensely doing it decades and decades ago, labeit under different conditions and with a slightly different organization - two officers, four guns, eight vehicles and about forty troops.

OS, what were the handling drills like on the catapault anyway? 

 

[GnyHwy]

Okay thanks. That's a lot of information but it answered my question very well. So, how may soldiers and guns are in one gun troop? And is that where most junior officers are? Since you mentioned from second lieutenant to captain being in charge.

Yes, the most junior positions are on the gun position, as well as some misc. admin positions.  Once an O leaves the guns, he will likely move to being a FOO (a crse which all Arty Os complete), but he could also be employed in STA.  There are far too many positions to list for a Capt, and the spread of experience from a brand new Capt to an experienced one is quite large, and some of them can involve a lot of responsibility:  Ops O, RCPO, IG, Tech Staff O etc.

 

[Teen_Cadet]

Yes, the most junior positions are on the gun position, as well as some misc. admin positions.  Once an O leaves the guns, he will likely move to being a FOO (a crse which all Arty Os complete), but he could also be employed in STA.  There are far too many positions to list for a Capt, and the spread of experience from a brand new Capt to an experienced one is quite large, and some of them can involve a lot of responsibility:  Ops O, RCPO, IG, Tech Staff O etc.

That sounds very interesting, thank you. Being a platoon leader of a gun troop sounds like an amazing experience, and the more senior positions sound fulfilling too. This information has definitly helped with my decision making for when I apply.

 

[jeffb]

Yes, the most junior positions are on the gun position, as well as some misc. admin positions.  Once an O leaves the guns, he will likely move to being a FOO (a crse which all Arty Os complete), but he could also be employed in STA.  There are far too many positions to list for a Capt, and the spread of experience from a brand new Capt to an experienced one is quite large, and some of them can involve a lot of responsibility:  Ops O, RCPO, IG, Tech Staff O etc.

Sort of but not really. I for one have never served as a troop commander in a Gun Bty. After my phase training I was immediately posted to an STA Bty within a direct support Regiment. There is also a whole Regiment in which none of the officers will probably ever serve on a gun position. (4AD ring a bell?) The Royal Regiment is a large and diverse organization especially when you consider the Reserves. Also, the experiences will vary widely from unit to unit and year to year. It is quite conceivable that in a few years there vast majority of officers across the Royal Regiment will NEVER command anything on a gun position if the reserves loose the gun task and become STA and mortar units.

All that being said, gun position operations is what ground will probably always remain our primary function. Your phase training will hammer this home to you and I am quite confident that even after spending several years away from "the box" I could quite quickly get back up to speed as a Command Post Officer as could any Artillery Officer.

The wide variety of tasks and career paths available to an Artillery Officer is precisely what makes this such a good profession.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Sort of but not really. I for one have never served as a troop commander in a Gun Bty. After my phase training I was immediately posted to an STA Bty within a direct support Regiment. There is also a whole Regiment in which none of the officers will probably ever serve on a gun position. (4AD ring a bell?) The Royal Regiment is a large and diverse organization especially when you consider the Reserves. Also, the experiences will vary widely from unit to unit and year to year. It is quite conceivable that in a few years there vast majority of officers across the Royal Regiment will NEVER command anything on a gun position if the reserves loose the gun task and become STA and mortar units.

All that being said, gun position operations is what ground will probably always remain our primary function. Your phase training will hammer this home to you and I am quite confident that even after spending several years away from "the box" I could quite quickly get back up to speed as a Command Post Officer as could any Artillery Officer.

The wide variety of tasks and career paths available to an Artillery Officer is precisely what makes this such a good profession.

At this time, the intent is to start moving to the original plan of having all officers go to close support units before moving into STA and AD units.  So, you will do Dp 1.1 (Field artillery), DP 1.2 (Field artillery) and than probably be posted to 1 RCHA in Shilo, 2 RCHA in Pet, or 5 RALC in Valcartier.  From the AD perspective, we are trying to get away from new officers coming to 4 AD since they dont have the training to do any jobs.

That said... you will do a FOO course for sure as mentioned before.  Than, if you want or are volunteered, you will do the STA Tp Comd course and become a locator at a close support regiment or 4 AD or you will do the Air Defence Officer course and do Airspace Coordination or Medium Range Radar (MRR).  You will than do the Arty Ops Course (FECCO is dead/dying this year) and potentially the IG course as a STA O, AD O, or Gun O.  Than the BC course. 

AD IG course at this time is being done in England also if that floats your boat.  The intent for the IG course is to do a common course, than have pers break off into their streams.  So all IGs would do gun recce, than would break off with Gun Area guys/gals doing the OP portion, STA doing an STA portion, and AD doing an AD portion.

 

[GnyHwy]

Sort of but not really. I for one have never served as a troop commander in a Gun Bty. After my phase training I was immediately posted to an STA Bty within a direct support Regiment. There is also a whole Regiment in which none of the officers will probably ever serve on a gun position. (4AD ring a bell?) The Royal Regiment is a large and diverse organization especially when you consider the Reserves. Also, the experiences will vary widely from unit to unit and year to year. It is quite conceivable that in a few years there vast majority of officers across the Royal Regiment will NEVER command anything on a gun position if the reserves loose the gun task and become STA and mortar units.

All that being said, gun position operations is what ground will probably always remain our primary function. Your phase training will hammer this home to you and I am quite confident that even after spending several years away from "the box" I could quite quickly get back up to speed as a Command Post Officer as could any Artillery Officer.

The wide variety of tasks and career paths available to an Artillery Officer is precisely what makes this such a good profession.

I agree with pretty much all you have said, especially the wide variety statement in the last sentence.  Yeah, I forgot about 4 AD, but you can pretty much remove the AD part and insert GSR.  It's just a tradition thing now, and who knows, by the time the OP gets in they may have an AD capability back.

I want to comment on the reserves statements you made.  The STA capability is interesting and giving them UAVs that can be attached easily to Cbt Tms is probably a very good idea.  The mortars are an unfortunate result of a lack of guns, but at least they are keeping there skills up.  Mortar troops (4 tubes) would also be a great attachment to a Cbt Tm, but I wouldn't have them without max supervision.

 

[GnyHwy]

AD IG course at this time is being done in England also if that floats your boat. 

That is interesting and something that we should keep a grip on if we ever expect to get the AD capability back effectively.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I agree with pretty much all you have said, especially the wide variety statement in the last sentence.  Yeah, I forgot about 4 AD, but you can pretty much remove the AD part and insert GSR.  It's just a tradition thing now, and who knows, by the time the OP gets in they may have an AD capability back.

I want to comment on the reserves statements you made.  The STA capability is interesting and giving them UAVs that can be attached easily to Cbt Tms is probably a very good idea.  The mortars are an unfortunate result of a lack of guns, but at least they are keeping there skills up.  Mortar troops (4 tubes) would also be a great attachment to a Cbt Tm, but I wouldn't have them without max supervision.

The transformation of 4 AD, rumour has it, will change once the change of command is through.  The reality is that without a LRPR capability, there's no real need for a GSR.  The UAS is remaining at 4 AD to justify some positions, but the MRR will be an Air Surveillance Radar first, STA second and the ASCC capabilities will remain there.  Once the shooter piece comes back than the UAS will move out of 4 AD (hopefully).

The IG course in England is not a good COA for the long term maintainance of an AD capability, so the first COA is to maintain the IG course in England as part of the common course.  As we have ASCC and MRR(soon-ish) remaining in Canada, and an AD TSM and AD Officer course returning, as well as FECCO/Arty Ops and the BC course, there's little utility in training someone in Canada on Canadian doctrine than sending them to England to learn something different, than bring them back to teach courses in something different.  :2c: of course.

 

[GnyHwy]

ASCC capabilities will remain there.[4AD and/or 4GSR]

This is a big deal for me.  The alternative is to have broken air force folks attempting to learn army tactics/operations on the fly.  Air force no doubt need to be there, just not alone.

The IG course in England is not a good COA for the long term maintainance of an AD capability, so the first COA is to maintain the IG course in England as part of the common course.  As we have ASCC and MRR(soon-ish) remaining in Canada, and an AD TSM and AD Officer course returning, as well as FECCO/Arty Ops and the BC course, there's little utility in training someone in Canada on Canadian doctrine than sending them to England to learn something different, than bring them back to teach courses in something different.  :2c: of course.

I get it that it is pointless to learn tactics/drills/doctrine of a piece of equipment that we will never use.  I was thinking about understanding the strategy/technology.  Perhaps tech staff positions.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

This is a big deal for me.  The alternative is to have broken air force folks attempting to learn army tactics/operations on the fly.  Air force no doubt need to be there, just not alone.

I get it that it is pointless to learn tactics/drills/doctrine of a piece of equipment that we will never use.  I was thinking about understanding the strategy/technology.  Perhaps tech staff positions.

Agree with the ASCC.  As for the technology, the Captains career course in the US would be a better fit for Canadian officers to keep up to date with changes.  The UK AD is quite outdated (Rapier and HVM) and they aren't developing new kit.  The US is still developing new AD kit, including Medium range, short range, and C-RAM.  As C-RAM/MANPADs are the likely way of the future (who knows?) and as we are likely to require to tie into an American TDL net, and as the US still maintains a strong GBAD capability that would be a better tie for us in the near-medium term. 

 

[krimynal]

I'm trying to read trough the website topics about this subject :

Can you explain an arty officer's role?
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/1565.0.html

Training after BMQ, Exactly what happens?
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/94005.0.html

Questions about Artillery NCM duties and career progression
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/104289.0.html

Artillery Officer Career Progression
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/90996.0.html

but I think I'm just unclear about every possible aspect of the job , a lot of people seem to speak about the FOO aspect ( not sure what this is exactly ) , and I'm trying to compare a career as an artillery officer versus an infantry officer ( please don't throw rocks at me )

I know its 2 WAY different jobs , but I still want to consider the biggest difference.

I just want to know if this life would be something I could consider or should I choose something else !

Thanks

 

[krimynal]

If I look at Infantry NCM possibilities ( which I know are based on your qualities and performance )

SPECIALTY TRAINING
Infantry Soldiers may be offered the opportunity to develop specialized skills through formal courses and on-the-job training, including:

Basic Parachutist
Parachute Jumpmaster
Para Instructor
Mountain Warfare
Instructional Techniques
First Aid Instructor
Rappelmaster
Unarmed Combat Instructor
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence Instructor
Urban Operations

Top of page
ADVANCED TRAINING
As they progress in their career, Infantry Soldiers who demonstrate the required ability and potential will be offered advanced training. Available courses include:

Instructional Techniques
Primary Army Leadership
Infantry Soldier Section Commander
Infantry Soldier Platoon Second-in-Command
Infantry Soldier Company Sergeant-Major
Communicator
Reconnaissance Patrolling
Anti-Armour Gunner
Sniper
Section Commander
Eryx Gunner
Machinegunner (Heavy and General Purpose)
Small Arms Coach
25mm Gunner and light armoured vehicle Crew Commander
Winter (Arctic) and Jungle Operations
Patrol Pathfinder
Tactical Intelligence Operator


There is a LOT of different things that you can train on , how about artillery ???

 

[MikeL]

a lot of people seem to speak about the FOO aspect ( not sure what this is exactly ) , and I'm trying to compare a career as an artillery officer versus an infantry officer ( please don't throw rocks at me )

Artillery adds dignity, to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl

If you read through the FOO threads it should give you a pretty good of what they do, or at least a portion of what they do.  In a really basic simple way of explaining what the FOO role is; they make sure the Artillery Guns drop big bullets onto bad guys.  If you get qualified FAC/JTAC, you tell the Pilots where you want them to drop bombs or fire rockets, etc. Plus the FOO/FAC advises the commander of the sub-unit you are attached to(ex a Infantry company) of what you(RCHA) can offer, preparing fire plans, etc. There are a number of other jobs an Artillery Officer can/will do in their time with the Regiment and ERE(outside the Regiment jobs) postings.

Have you watched the Infantry Officer and Artillery Officer videos on the recruiting website?  It'll give you a good idea of what they do and you'll be able to figure out the difference between them.

If I look at Infantry NCM possibilities ( which I know are based on your qualities and performance )
......................

There is a LOT of different things that you can train on , how about artillery ???

Yes, there are plenty of Artillery career courses NCMs can do through the various DP levels.  As well, a number of those courses listed for Infantry NCMs are available to Artillery NCMs/Officers and other trades.

Have a look through this thread to see what is available to Artillery Officers/NCMs
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103901.0.html


There are a few Gunners on the forum, I am sure they will be along soon.  My reply is just based off speaking with Gunners and what I've read on the forum, etc.

 

[Jammer]

You can also be shot out of a cannon....

 

[krimynal]

You can also be shot out of a cannon....

I'm trying to not end up that way lol , but I guess that's what happens with bad officer hahah !

 

[dangerboy]

None of the "specialty" training that krimynal posted are Infantry specific.  They are more or less any Army trade and most any CF trade.

 

[krimynal]

None of the "specialty" training that krimynal posted are Infantry specific.  They are more or less any Army trade and most any CF trade.

but lets say we live in a perfect world , where everything happens like I wish ( bare with me this is a fantasy ) Could an Artillery Officer be a Parachute Jumpmaster ? or do the Arctic / jungle training ?