At the unit awaiting the BMQ - lowest of the low?

[Donut]

I'll "consider" the little darlings anyway I want, who the hell are you to tell me otherwise?

Oh, I'll call them Mr and Miss, even let them think they've made a decision or two, but I'll continue to "consider" them below an untrained private.  The Pte (R) at least doesn't think that putting on a uniform and a piece of vermicelli somehow imbues him with the insight of of Rommel or the leadership of Patton.  He KNOWS he's at the bottom of the hill, skill-wise, and doesn't think he's ready to lead the cbt team attack, whereas the OCdt...well, that's another story.



DF

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'll "consider" the little darlings anyway I want, who the hell are you to tell me otherwise?

Oh, I'll call them Mr and Miss, even let them think they've made a decision or two, but I'll continue to "consider" them below an untrained private.  The Pte (R) at least doesn't think that putting on a uniform and a piece of vermicelli somehow imbues him with the insight of of Rommel or the leadership of Patton.  He KNOWS he's at the bottom of the hill, skill-wise, and doesn't think he's ready to lead the cbt team attack, whereas the OCdt...well, that's another story.



DF

Can you get a wider brush to paint people with?

 

[Donut]

I'm sure if I tried.  ;D

Just relating my experiences with the little darlings.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'm sure if I tried.  ;D

Just relating my experiences with the little darlings.

And people wonder how we manage to create some officers that never really learn to trust their NCOs.  Perhaps it could be because some NCOs treated them blindly with just such a callous attitude.

 

[Big Foot]

I'll "consider" the little darlings anyway I want, who the hell are you to tell me otherwise?

Oh, I'll call them Mr and Miss, even let them think they've made a decision or two, but I'll continue to "consider" them below an untrained private.  The Pte (R) at least doesn't think that putting on a uniform and a piece of vermicelli somehow imbues him with the insight of of Rommel or the leadership of Patton.  He KNOWS he's at the bottom of the hill, skill-wise, and doesn't think he's ready to lead the cbt team attack, whereas the OCdt...well, that's another story.



DF

ParaMedTech, all I can say is I'm glad that my CAP staff didn't take your attitude this summer. Your broad strokes cover officer cadets who are Phase III infantry qualified (i.e. qualified to lead an unmounted infantry platoon), officer cadets who used to be NCMs. There are a wide range of people who wear that little vermicelli, don't treat us all like we're fresh off the street.

 

[Donut]

Oh, I'll concede there are exceptions, and I'll admit I'm not entirely up to speed on the Cbt Arms career progression.  What I am saying, is the OCdts that I have encountered, at the BMQ/SQ/CAP whatever level tended to think of themselves as somewhat more skilled in their chosen vocation then, in fact, was the case.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I used to be res and now I'm reg. When i did res "battle" school they really didn't care that much about ranks other than officers, that's the only time we came to attention. But when i did Reg battle school 24 apr o6 We had to come to attention for all ranks including Pte and address them by ranks.

no need for the quotations.  Res or Reg, it is just Battle School.

Don't forget your roots, as they say...

 

[Quag]

Oh, I'll concede there are exceptions, and I'll admit I'm not entirely up to speed on the Cbt Arms career progression.  What I am saying, is the OCdts that I have encountered, at the BMQ/SQ/CAP whatever level tended to think of themselves as somewhat more skilled in their chosen vocation then, in fact, was the case.

It's called association. Don't do it.  You are going to get all sorts of people in this world that think they are more skilled and more intelligent and more....
It's called reality; get over it.  You are painting all OCdt.'s with your experiences of some.

Just relating my experiences with the little darlings.

Thank you for relating your experiences. :

In regards to this:

I'll "consider" the little darlings anyway I want, who the hell are you to tell me otherwise?

Oh, I'll call them Mr and Miss, even let them think they've made a decision or two, but I'll continue to "consider" them below an untrained private.  The Pte (R) at least doesn't think that putting on a uniform and a piece of vermicelli somehow imbues him with the insight of of Rommel or the leadership of Patton.  He KNOWS he's at the bottom of the hill, skill-wise, and doesn't think he's ready to lead the cbt team attack, whereas the OCdt...well, that's another story.

Wow...  You must be an excellent NCO.  You will let them think they've made a decision or two, and even call them Mr or Miss, eh?  How nice of you. 

Do you even read what you write before you post?

And people wonder how we manage to create some officers that never really learn to trust their NCOs.  Perhaps it could be because some NCOs treated them blindly with just such a callous attitude.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I think everyone knows and Officer Cadet is that rank because of the 2 things they usually don't have alot of...experience and training.  This, of course, is not the case where Jnr NCO and in some cases, Snr NCOs are selected for Officer training from the ranks.

Same as those Pte(R) spoken of here.  Difference?

Not too many Jnr NCOs and up on the NCM side are worried that this Pte(r) may be leading them some day.  With the OCdt's they/we are.

So we watch them closer.  ;D

An OCdt is a higher rank than say....a MWO.  I would love to see a OCdt try to tell a SSM the "where for's and how too's".

SO I guess common sense applies...as it always has...

We are all on the same team....right? 

 

[Klc]

NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS

12. Chief Warrant Officer
13. Master Warrant Officer
14. Warrant Officer
15. Sergeant
16. Corporal
17. Private

See, that's funny to me - I could have sworn that there was something between Sergeant and Corporal...  ;D

Then again, I'm not exactly an SME on this or anything... >

 

[17thRecceSgt]

See, that's funny to me - I could have sworn that there was something between Sergeant and Corporal...  ;D

Then again, I'm not exactly an SME on this or anything... >

Nope.

MCpl is an appointment, not a rank.

If you look at the Reg Frce pay tables, you will see there is no MCpl on there.  Only Cpl 5A and Cpl 5B.

Learn something every day don't ya?  ;D

 

[Michael OLeary]

See, that's funny to me - I could have sworn that there was something between Sergeant and Corporal...  ;D

Then again, I'm not exactly an SME on this or anything... >

From the same link:

3.08 – MASTER CORPORAL APPOINTMENT

(1) The Chief of the Defence Staff or such officer as he may designate may appoint a corporal as a master corporal.

(2) The rank of a master corporal remains that of corporal.

(3) Master corporals have seniority among themselves in their order of seniority as corporals.

(4) Master corporals have authority and powers of command over all other corporals.

 

[Conquistador]

See, that's funny to me - I could have sworn that there was something between Sergeant and Corporal...

MCpl is an appointment, not a rank.

 

[Quag]

An OCdt is a higher rank than say....a MWO.  I would love to see a OCdt try to tell a SSM the "where for's and how too's".

SO I guess common sense applies...as it always has...

We are all on the same team....right? 

This is what it all boils down to.  I was just challenging the technicality.  I completely agree with you, MRM.  Common sense always prevails!

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Well, this IS the army....common sense is always PRESENT...not necessarily APPLIED.

;D

 

[Pte_Martin]

Nope.

MCpl is an appointment, not a rank.

If you look at the Reg Frce pay tables, you will see there is no MCpl on there.  Only Cpl 5A and Cpl 5B.

Learn something every day don't ya?   ;D

Reference  http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28

 

[Klc]

Nope.

MCpl is an appointment, not a rank.

If you look at the Reg Frce pay tables, you will see there is no MCpl on there.  Only Cpl 5A and Cpl 5B.

Learn something every day don't ya?  ;D

True that. Of course, that's why I tossed the fine print in there.

Funny that this was never taught in cadets. I'm looking at my reference book, and it states it as an NCM rank under EO 402.03 (IDENTIFY OFFICER AND NCM RANK STRUCTURE IN THE CANADIAN ARMY) Not at all saying whats in my pam is correct, I just find it amusing that it was never taught that way, and not identified as such in reference materials.

As was said, learn somehing new everyday.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

While legally OCdt is an officer rank, it is also listed as a "subordinate officer", meaning an OCdt is an "officer in training", nothing more.  An OCdt is a member of the Officer's Mess, has certain legal rights as a "superior"...however...  He/she has not been commissioned and is considered "under instruction" during his/her time in rank.  OCdts are not merit listed for promotion (outside the training system) and can do nothing more than OJT with units.

No matter what an OCdt's background, one is not better than the other and there's no pecking order.  All OCdts are in training - full stop - and would be well advised to remember that fact when dealing with people in positions to give them advice and guidance.  I know, for instance, that I learned a hell of a lot from the various Troopers and Corporals who "assisted" me through my first stumbling steps in the Army.

On the flip side, soldiers and Sr NCOs who delight in picking on OCdts should remember that they are going to have to live with the results of their "assistance" some day - for good or ill.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

See, that's funny to me - I could have sworn that there was something between Sergeant and Corporal...  ;D

Then again, I'm not exactly an SME on this or anything... >

No, there isn't.  MCpl is an appointment, not a rank - but that is advanced pedantry.

As to the OCdt discussion - get over yourselves.  If you are lucky, you will pass training, and be given the awesome honour of command - which should be an even more humbling experience than being an OCdt.  If it isn't, you weren't paying attention during all of that "culturisation" as an OCdt.

Dave

Pte, then OCdt, then Officer - of some years and experience.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

True that. Of course, that's why I tossed the fine print in there.

Funny that this was never taught in cadets. I'm looking at my reference book, and it states it as an NCM rank under EO 402.03 (IDENTIFY OFFICER AND NCM RANK STRUCTURE IN THE CANADIAN ARMY) Not at all saying whats in my pam is correct, I just find it amusing that it was never taught that way, and not identified as such in reference materials.

As was said, learn somehing new everyday.

Yup.  If you look the the Rank Structure handouts given by the CFRCs....and the MLPs on same..it doesn't point out that MCpl is as Mr O'Leary's ref says...

Odd.  Don't you think?  ;D