Attempted assassination of Donald Trump 13 July 2024

[Jarnhamar]

for his anti-war stance on Ukraine.

$175,000,000,000 in spending, $107,000,000,000 in aid? That's alot of money.

 

[KevinB]

Unless he went to scout-sniper camp while all the other kids were going to band camp or space camp, or went into the army right after graduation and was fast-tracked after boot into a ninja-ranger stream, "opportunistic amateur" is the way to bet.

Too young to be a black side asset.

And while a good a pasty, the grassy knoll shooter wouldn’t have missed…

There were some pretty solid shooting spots in the 1,200-1,600m range overlooking the event, a water tower with woods around it, a church and a few other places.

 

[GR66]

And some more details from CNN on the team in the building as well as the rooftop not being manned...

Snipers were inside the building where gunman attempted to assassinate Trump​

From CNN's Whitney Wild
Snipers were stationed inside the building where a gunman climbed the roof and attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump, a source familiar with the investigation tells CNN.

The source said the local sniper team hailed from the Butler County Emergency Services Unit.

The team, according to the source, was located on the second floor providing overwatch of the crowd at the rally.

...so not on an "unscheduled lunch break".

And as to why they were on the 2nd floor rather than the roof?

Secret Service director says safety concerns about 'sloped roof' led to keeping officers inside the building​

From CNN's Maureen Chowdhury
Kimberly Cheatle, director of the Secret Service, said that the “bucks stops with me” in an interview with ABC News when pressed about who was most responsible for security failures that led to the assassination attempt of Donald Trump on Saturday.

Cheatle was also pressed on why the shooter was able to get onto a rooftop of a building in the sightline of the stage or why law enforcement wasn’t on that rooftop.

She went on to say that the shooter was actually identified as a potential person of suspicion and that “units started responding to seek that individual out. Unfortunately with the rapid succession of how things unfolded by the time that individual was located, they were on the rooftop and we able to fire off at the former president.”

Asked if the rooftop should have been secured, Cheatle said that the particular rooftop was sloped at its highest point and that there was a safety factor considered in terms of putting an agent there.

“That building in particular has a sloped roof at it’s highest point and so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof and so, you know, the decision was made to secure the building from the inside,” Cheatle said.

The highlighted might not have been such a big deal if access to the roof was properly secured.

[edited to add a link to the CNN page where these items were originally posted]

 

[Haggis]

I was going to mention that. We, in Canada, have no concept of the number of private, local, county, state and federal law enforcement agencies there are in the US. Wiki has it around 18K; years ago I was at the Canadian embassy in DC and the RCMP police liaison estimated 20K, so take your pick. He used the example of a drunk staggering down a sidewalk in DC. Depending on where it was, he listed off the potential agences that would be responsible if the drunk passed out and fell to one side.

Another striking difference between the US and Canada is that many of the organizations down there providing any level of security or enforcement functions are armed to varying degrees and with varying levels of training and proficiency. It's like having Commissionaires paired up with DHTC folks at a major event in Canada.

 

[Jarnhamar]

“That building in particular has a sloped roof at it’s highest point and so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof and so, you know, the decision was made to secure the building from the inside,” Cheatle said.

No one outrank general safety.

The highlighted might not have been such a big deal if access to the roof was properly sesecured.

Yeah for sure. The shooter got pretty lucky wandering around without a plan and finding an unattended ladder to an unoccupied roof.

It's wild to think Trumps noodle got missed by an inch or two. If he didn't have Trudeau levels of "destined to rule" before he does now.

 

[jackamela]

Well I’m sure you are basing this on your extensive background in LE, Counter Sniper work and Personal Protection?

I'm basing it on having a healthy cynicism and an open mind to everything being a possibility, and on the observable facts available to everyone.

I think it's healthy to ask questions.

 

[Haggis]

Too young to be a black side asset.

And while a good a pasty, the grassy knoll shooter wouldn’t have missed…

There were some pretty solid shooting spots in the 1,200-1,600m range overlooking the event, a water tower with woods around it, a church and a few other places.

Bob Lee Swagger enters the chat.

 

[jackamela]

I wasn’t there, so I’m relying on some that were.

I don’t recall I said that entities outside of the USSS did their job.

I think you really need to step away from the keyboard and get some fresh air.

The shooter took his father’s rifle (was bought 13 years ago) but a value pack of 50rds of 55gr FMJ and went to the venue.
It doesn’t appear that he zeroed the rifle prior.

So I’d suggest that he simply drove around looking for an opening. Either he saw the team come off the roof and noticed it was left open or he stumbled on the open roof by accident.

Suggesting that there was some sort of conspiracy is ludicrous, you could easily find a lot of more qualified shooters to do it from longer range.

All you are doing here is looking like a raving assclown.

I haven't suggested there was any sort of a conspiracy - I've just observed, as much of the rest of the world has, that there appears to have been an extraordinary confluence of failures. I'm also questioning how this could have happened.

You don't think people should ask questions?

Perhaps you need to take some time away from the keyboard, since you appear to be taking the US SS failures (if failures is what they turn out to be) very personally.

 

[KevinB]

I haven't suggested there was any sort of a conspiracy - I've just observed, as much of the rest of the world has, that there appears to have been an extraordinary confluence of failures. I'm also questioning how this could have happened.

I don’t see that at all.

I see a LE CS Det that didn’t do their job, and as a result it was capitalized on by a young and dumb person with some mental issues.

You don't think people should ask questions?

Questions are fine, it’s when the answers get repeatedly ignored and the tinfoil gets strapped on that is when I get irked.

Perhaps you need to take some time away from the keyboard, since you appear to be taking the US SS failures (if failures is what they turn out to be) very personally.

Firstly it’s USSS, there isn’t a space. Secondly I love picking on the USSS, just ask their CS Captain, and several other folks there. BUT I do it when it is relevant…

Other than internet morons in their mom’s basement there isn’t anything suggesting USSS personnel from PPD, to CAT to CS, did anything but what they should have on that day.

 

[jackamela]

I don’t see that at all.

I see a LE CS Det that didn’t do their job, and as a result it was capitalized on by a young and dumb person with some mental issues.

Questions are fine, it’s when the answers get repeatedly ignored and the tinfoil gets strapped on that is when I get irked.

Firstly it’s USSS, there isn’t a space. Secondly I love picking on the USSS, just ask their CS Captain, and several other folks there. BUT I do it when it is relevant…

Other than internet morons in their mom’s basement there isn’t anything suggesting USSS personnel from PPD, to CAT to CS, did anything but what they should have on that day.

Fair enough. We see it differently, we can disagree respectfully.

 

[KevinB]

Bob Lee Swagger enters the chat.

Ever notice Presidential assassin (or attempted assassins) always use their middle name…

 

[PrairieFella]

It appears that this individual has been officially identified. I'm wondering if he actually used all three names, as it draws comparisons to a few historical people.

They use three names for shooters to be as precise as possible. Don't want to ruin someone with a similar name's life accidentally.

 

[lenaitch]

They use three names for shooters to be as precise as possible. Don't want to ruin someone with a similar name's life accidentally.

Fair point. One our road trip guys always got delayed at the border because of a Texas-based US felon with the same name and similar DOB.

Also, using middle names is common in same parts of the US.

 

[Remius]

Ever notice Presidential assassin (or attempted assassins) always use their middle name…

The media sure does.

 

[dapaterson]

The media sure does.

John Wilkes Booth
Lee Harvey Oswald
Neil Patrick Harris

 

[Remius]

John Wilkes Booth
Lee Harvey Oswald
Neil Patrick Harris

Haley Joel Osmond

 

[PrairieFella]

I never thought of that, but having local LEO dress the same as the local freedom militia probably isn't helpful.

If only cops had some easily identifiable uniforms in conspicuous colours like blue...big aside but the militarization of the police in the USA is under-studied and incredibly disturbing. These Gravy SEAL cops dress and LARP that their SOF, despite having the exact opposite goals.

 

[lenaitch]

I’m sure there was a brief where USSS signed off on a plan where the local team provided their concept of ops. They then said “looks good”

The USSS can’t stand next to the team while they do their job- they have to trust that when they are given a plan that it is executed. In this case it wasn’t- it collapsed- and the USSS recovered the op.

There is not a good comparison from Canada and the States in this stuff.

Large city forces in Canada have great teams that area rcmp teams work well with. Large city teams in the US are pros too.

Local level “teams” can be as low as a 40 hour NTOA course, “Basic Swat” you can look the syllabus up online. I did it with one of their instructors ten years ago to look into their curriculum.

There are small teams popping up around Canada in small forces that are also falling into that training trap, 40 hours, a gas course, an old armoured vehicle.

The answer is- there is no answer because the high standard and the low standard are so far apart. And some of those small teams are so busy that they become good by experience. So even that’s not totally a good metric.

It comes down to- is a small place better off having some capability or are they better off knowing they shouldnt be doing something?

That’s a philosophical question for their politicians. Ideally you’d have a national standard but in my experience when you make a national standard your bar comes down to meet something lower- not up.

With higher level (state/province and federal) standards usually comes an expectation that said higher level include funding to meet them.

Ontario has 'adequacy standards' for police services which essentially outline what functions a police service has to provide itself, what it can contract out and what are provincial (OPP) services, but they are a floor. A small PS (that no longer exists) near where we used to live sent one member on a containment course, then proudly announced to their Board that they had a 'containment team'.

The standards for most of the actual services themselves are not well defined. One thing that does ensure a decent level of standards and commonality in areas such as canine, tactical, containment, etc. is only a handful of large services provide the training.

 

[PrairieFella]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812834792989245651

why dont they just hire ex NFL lineman for the SS?

Women are statistically better shots than men, mostly due to their more stable body shape. Why aren't all our snipers women?

 

[Haggis]

Fair point. One our road trip guys always got delayed at the border because of a Texas-based US felon with the same name and similar DOB.

Also, using middle names is common in same parts of the US.

I was driver of the first vehicle on scene of an MVA just south of Petawawa about 40 years ago. My buddies and I did first aid and scene management until the OPP showed up. Once the dust settled we went to the detachment to give our statements. I provided my driver's licence as ID. The PC came out of the back and asked "what's the "R" in your middle initial stand for?" I said "Robert, why?" He said "if it would've been "Ross" you were going to jail.".

That dude, another CAF member, haunted me forever!