Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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Hello Mark:
First, I am not convinced DCNS is offering its "intermediate" frigate to Canada. The Defense News article you quoted only states that it is being offered to Australia as a substitute for the FREMM offering. I quote: "DCNS is also offering Australia its planned intermediate frigate, as the FREMM is much bigger than the Anzac, which displaces around 3,500 tons, Boy said. The intermediate warship could be around 4,200 tons, and could be extended 3, 6 or 9 meters to displace up to 4,600 tons, depending on the requirement and budget."
Now, where does this "planned" intermediate frigate come from? It's the replacement being studied in France right now for the overseas territory security and they would replace the La Fayette class and the Floreal class. The French consider these ships light general purpose vessels for low to medium risk environments. The replacements are planned to be able to face the same threat environments.
It's interesting to note the continuation of size inflation in the "entry" level blue water combat vessels currently going on about everywhere. The Floreal displace about 3,000 tons and the La Fayette's about 3,600 tons, but will both be replaced by the "intermediate" 4,500 tons DCNS design. Meanwhile, the current French navy ASW destroyers of the Georges Leygue class and AD destroyers of the Cassard class, both of approx. 4,500 tons, are being replaced by the FREMM's of about 6,000 tons. Meanwhile also, in Italy, the PPA you mentioned, at about 4,200 tons (size of an IRO), will replace three classes of patrol ships that weighed in at about 1,500 - 1,600 tons.
As for the said P.P.A., as I mentioned, they are weird animals. For one thing, they will have CODAG propulsion, something unheard of on offshore patrol vessels. It is an actual frigate/destroyer set up, and much more expansive that a diesel only power plant. But I guess it is required to achieve the electricity generation they wished to provide from ship to shore in the disaster assistance role. So if you are going to fit a gas turbine, may as well use it for propulsion also. Besides, it gives you speeds of 32+ knots, a very Italian thing (They insist all of their ships be fast, as compared to other nation's similar classes. Its an Italian thing: looking and acting dashing is more important than results, I suppose ). But such speed then means that you have to build the hull with full mil-spec high tensile steel instead of the ordinary medium tensile steel used in patrol vessels and merchant ships. That is also going to increase price. So each P.P.A. will be a lot more expansive than current high end Offshore Patrol Vessels being used and built around the world.
The second thing about the P.P.A. is that it is not an "adaptable" design that lets you switch from the general purpose "light" version that is for patrols, lightly armed, and capable of variations with fitted containers for disaster relief, humanitarian missions, and so forth, to the "full" version which is armed and equipped with supplementary high end sensors for "front line" service as a capable corvette level ship. You buy one OR the other, but they can't be both, and you cannot "switch" between the two types as you go along.
For the first batch of six (and we don't know if the extra four will ever be purchased), the Italians are getting five "light" version and only one of the "full" version. They are getting that last one purely for evaluation purposes, to see IF Fincantieri's claims of usefulness as a "front line" ship is true and if they could then be purchased as cheaper replacement for the Lupo's and a couple of the Maestrale's that would then not need to be replaced by more expansive FREMM's.
The level of sensors and armament of the "full" P.P.A., however, make them less than useful for Canada's or Australia's needs. As I said, it is at the "corvette" level: The "full" version has a limited long range Anti-air sensor capability. It also has no real ASW sensor suite to speak of. The "full" P.P.A. is basically a well rounded surface warfare vessel with anti-air self-protection capability. It cannot be called a General purpose fighting ship.
First, I am not convinced DCNS is offering its "intermediate" frigate to Canada. The Defense News article you quoted only states that it is being offered to Australia as a substitute for the FREMM offering. I quote: "DCNS is also offering Australia its planned intermediate frigate, as the FREMM is much bigger than the Anzac, which displaces around 3,500 tons, Boy said. The intermediate warship could be around 4,200 tons, and could be extended 3, 6 or 9 meters to displace up to 4,600 tons, depending on the requirement and budget."
Now, where does this "planned" intermediate frigate come from? It's the replacement being studied in France right now for the overseas territory security and they would replace the La Fayette class and the Floreal class. The French consider these ships light general purpose vessels for low to medium risk environments. The replacements are planned to be able to face the same threat environments.
It's interesting to note the continuation of size inflation in the "entry" level blue water combat vessels currently going on about everywhere. The Floreal displace about 3,000 tons and the La Fayette's about 3,600 tons, but will both be replaced by the "intermediate" 4,500 tons DCNS design. Meanwhile, the current French navy ASW destroyers of the Georges Leygue class and AD destroyers of the Cassard class, both of approx. 4,500 tons, are being replaced by the FREMM's of about 6,000 tons. Meanwhile also, in Italy, the PPA you mentioned, at about 4,200 tons (size of an IRO), will replace three classes of patrol ships that weighed in at about 1,500 - 1,600 tons.
As for the said P.P.A., as I mentioned, they are weird animals. For one thing, they will have CODAG propulsion, something unheard of on offshore patrol vessels. It is an actual frigate/destroyer set up, and much more expansive that a diesel only power plant. But I guess it is required to achieve the electricity generation they wished to provide from ship to shore in the disaster assistance role. So if you are going to fit a gas turbine, may as well use it for propulsion also. Besides, it gives you speeds of 32+ knots, a very Italian thing (They insist all of their ships be fast, as compared to other nation's similar classes. Its an Italian thing: looking and acting dashing is more important than results, I suppose ). But such speed then means that you have to build the hull with full mil-spec high tensile steel instead of the ordinary medium tensile steel used in patrol vessels and merchant ships. That is also going to increase price. So each P.P.A. will be a lot more expansive than current high end Offshore Patrol Vessels being used and built around the world.
The second thing about the P.P.A. is that it is not an "adaptable" design that lets you switch from the general purpose "light" version that is for patrols, lightly armed, and capable of variations with fitted containers for disaster relief, humanitarian missions, and so forth, to the "full" version which is armed and equipped with supplementary high end sensors for "front line" service as a capable corvette level ship. You buy one OR the other, but they can't be both, and you cannot "switch" between the two types as you go along.
For the first batch of six (and we don't know if the extra four will ever be purchased), the Italians are getting five "light" version and only one of the "full" version. They are getting that last one purely for evaluation purposes, to see IF Fincantieri's claims of usefulness as a "front line" ship is true and if they could then be purchased as cheaper replacement for the Lupo's and a couple of the Maestrale's that would then not need to be replaced by more expansive FREMM's.
The level of sensors and armament of the "full" P.P.A., however, make them less than useful for Canada's or Australia's needs. As I said, it is at the "corvette" level: The "full" version has a limited long range Anti-air sensor capability. It also has no real ASW sensor suite to speak of. The "full" P.P.A. is basically a well rounded surface warfare vessel with anti-air self-protection capability. It cannot be called a General purpose fighting ship.