Australian navy's hunt for new sub to replace Collins class

[Underway]

The argument for nuke boats in Australia is much weaker than the one for nuke boats in Canada. Australia doesn't have a domestic nuclear industry, Canada does. Australia doesn't need under ice, Canada does. Australia is very close to its threatening neighbours, Canada isn't. Australia will do well with big conventional subs. It's the perfect environment for them in the south pacific. Big enough to hide, small enough to get where you need to go.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

His argument is that it was the nuclear sub fleet that really kickstarted the US civilian nuclear program and that it would likely do the same for Australia. He also feels the subs could be made there, but the reactor and components be imported. With the current agreement with the French, they could switch to the existing French Barracuda design.

 

[Underway]

His argument is that it was the nuclear sub fleet that really kickstarted the US civilian nuclear program and that it would likely do the same for Australia. He also feels the subs could be made there, but the reactor and components be imported. With the current agreement with the French, they could switch to the existing French Barracuda design.

Yes the US nuke boat program did kickstart the domestic nuclear power program. However civilian nuclear power no longer needs military money to take the risk of developing new technology. If Australia wanted/needed domestic nuclear power/industry it would already have it.

The UK has problems crewing their sub fleet, those reactors need 24/7 monitoring and the RN has been forced to hire civilians for times when the subs are not sailing (with all the attendant problems of that). Australia can't even crew the subs they have and are dealing with their own shortages of skilled personnel for non-nuclear technology.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Is there a Western power that is not short of trained personal?

 

[Underway]

Is there a Western power that is not short of trained personal?

The US. But they are also the only growing western power demographically as well. Everyone else is losing population.

Not sure what's going on in France. I don't hear too much about any personnel issues with them, but they heavily focus on reducing crewing in their ships. France as a country is also obsessed with its birthrate so their demographics are relatively stable compared to other European nations.

 

[dimsum]

Australia considers German submarine option as tensions with French company grow​

The Navy has begun quietly examining whether German-made submarines could provide an interim capability for Australia before a future $90 billion French-designed fleet is due to enter service in over a decade.

The Defence Department is also considering several other drastic options, including faster upgrades to Australia's existing Collins Class fleet, which would mean lucrative submarine maintenance work would likely remain in Adelaide.

Department sources said Navy's Director-General of Submarines, Commodore Timothy Brown, recently began a preliminary study of Type 214 submarines manufactured by German company TKMS, although Defence is refusing to confirm or deny the activity.

The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine operated by several navies, including South Korea, Portugal and Greece, but does not meet Australia's full requirements for a future fleet to eventually replace the ageing Collins Class submarines.

One Defence figure, who spoke to the ABC on the condition of anonymity, said Commodore Brown's scoping study was being conducted solely by the Navy and separate from the department's Capability and Sustainment Group (CASG), which oversees Australia's military acquisitions.

It is understood Commodore Brown is exploring if it would be possible for the Navy to modify a Type 214 submarine for Australian purposes, well ahead of when the future French submarines are expected to be delivered.

Australia considers German submarine option as tensions with French company grow

Defence Department sources say the Navy has started looking into German-made Type 214 submarines to be operational before the $90 billion French-designed fleet is ready.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Spencer100]

Oh good then the Collins will be available to purchase used earlier!

 

[OldSolduer]

Oh good then the Collins will be available to purchase used earlier!

OH heavens now you've gone and done it.

 

[dimsum]

​

Australia To Upgrade All Its Aging Submarines Amid Chronic Delays To Its New French Design

As Australia waits for its 12 new, controversial Attack class submarines, the country’s defense ministry has announced that it will spend around $4.6 billion keeping its current fleet of Collins class submarines viable until they can be replaced. Previous plans would have modernized just three of the Collins class, but the ministry has been forced to make the move since the first of the Attack class is not now expected to be delivered until around 2035, while the full fleet won’t achieve final operational capability (FOC) until 2054.​

Australia To Upgrade All Its Aging Submarines Amid Chronic Delays To Its New French Design

The costly refurbishment comes as the government confirms its new submarines won’t be fully combat-ready until 2054.

www.thedrive.com

 

[CBH99]

not a bad idea given China rising just over the horizon. I imagine the Collins class has some “old school charms” about them, as a lot of upgraded yet older diesel subs do.

The RAN pursuing 12 subs to replace their fleet of 6 is impressive and admirable. Good on them. And smart move.


Seems like a great example as to why to just buy a ship/boat/product as is, the way it’s designed.

Weapons and computers can be installed during the build and upgraded over time if needed... but replacing a nuclear propulsion system with conventional? Surely they could have just selected similar that didn’t need such a massive redesign.

 

[Spencer100]

WOW! RAN going nuclear! Looks like Virginia class. The OZ government is trashing the deal with France and Naval Group.

Going nuclear: PM to announce $90b French submarine deal is dead

The government is poised to make a major announcement about the submarine program, which could involve acquiring nuclear-powered boats in partnership with the US and UK.

www.afr.com

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Holy crap- that is big.

 

[Spencer100]

Holy crap- that is big.

That news will China around the bend. Next thing they will say is that they want to fly F-35's off the Canberra's!

 

[dimsum]

That was unexpected.

I thought the Australians were pretty anti-Nuke? Besides policy, the RAN will have to overhaul their entire submarine support infrastructure to support SSNs vice SSKs.

 

[calculus]

That was unexpected.

I thought the Australians were pretty anti-Nuke? Besides policy, the RAN will have to overhaul their entire submarine support infrastructure to support SSNs vice SSKs.

They couldn't even manage a conventional submarine program, ever, so how will they manage this (if it is even true).

 

[OldSolduer]

They couldn't even manage a conventional submarine program, ever, so how will they manage this (if it is even true).

And your qualifications to express this opinion are?

 

[GR66]

If you could dare to dream....

...purchase 8 of our own (4 for each coast) and make agreements with the USN that we can base them in Kitsap, Washington and New London, Connecticut alongside their own fleets (and contract ashore support from them as well).

 

[calculus]

And your qualifications to express this opinion are?

Nothing to do with qualifications. Simple history. Google Collins and Attack. Collins was way over budget, and years behind schedule. Attack is on the same path.

 

[OldSolduer]

Nothing to do with qualifications. Simple history. Google Collins and Attack. Collins was way over budget, and years behind schedule. Attack is on the same path.

And a lot like anything we do

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Nothing to do with qualifications. Simple history. Google Collins and Attack. Collins was way over budget, and years behind schedule. Attack is on the same path.

I bet that every nuclear design in the last 25 years has gone over budget, the French recently burnt up one of their nuke boats as I recall in a shipyard fire. The Indians sank one theirs at the dock.