Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )

[crankywitch]

Hi all, I am (pte) currently in Borden finishing up my AVN course, My common law hubby (sgt infantry) will be posted to Edmonton in feb, and we are trying to get a posting together out there, my question is what can I expect when i start my QL5 there, like what is day to day life like for the avn students? I have heard different stories like "your in the field alot, and you do pt with the infantry guys every morning, and the days are really long, don't expect to be home at 5" ect.. and then other stories say the opposite, so I would like to get the real story from someone who is currently there and can give me the real deal. Cool Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.. ;D

 

[belka]

Correct me if I'm wrong, since you'll be working on the Griffins, your QL5 course will be in Montreal. I would expect a lot of field exercises with the Army, doing most of the maintenance in the field. Since Edmonton is an Army base, I would expect nothing less than PT every morning, something that is lacking, IMO, in many Air Force bases/units.

BTW, shouldn't this be in the Maintainer's Bench section?

 

[crankywitch]

No, the QL5 is your type course, so whatever base you are posted to you learn to fix that type of aircraft, the QL3 course which is what I am on now is the precursor to that and it is taught in Borden Ontario,as for which section this should be in I thought this was the right section, and I do not know what a "maintainer bench section" is, I was just putting this out there and hoping to get a few responses from people who are there or have been there. Thanks have a great day.

 

[aesop081]

No, the QL5 is your type course, so whatever base you are posted to you learn to fix that type of aircraft,

The type course for CH-146 maintainers in in St-Hubert, PQ with 438 Sqn.

and I do not know what a "maintainer bench section" is,

It is the section of this site dedicated to aviation maintenance trades and related topics.

 

[crankywitch]

Oh ok, thanks, I will take a look but because it's Edmonton i'm not sure they could help me, but you never know.

 

[aesop081]

Oh ok, thanks, I will take a look but because it's Edmonton i'm not sure they could help me, but you never know.

So you understand that if you get posted with the husband to Edmonton, your training for the CH-146 will be done at another base ?

 

[crankywitch]

I am currently on the AVN course here in borden and it has been shortened to 8-10 mos as stated earlier, 8-10 being they say 8 but with holidays ect it turns out to be at least 9 and if you have to sit (which is waiting for another course to finish a section of the training before your course can get in) it could be 10, example: I started my course in april- and was told we would be finished 9 jan, so we are 6 mos in and after the hydrauics part of this course we will have to sit for at leas 3 weeks until room in landing gear becomes avail..so now they are saying we will finish end feb beginning of march if there are no more set backs. As for PMQ there are lots available and a friend of mine didn't have to much prob getting one for himself and his pregnant wife, as with anything there will be a bit of running around to do but you will get one, and they aren't too bad as far as PMQ's go, just the typical ones and they don't have basements because they are apparently built on very sandy ground,hope this help a little.

 

[pfl]

Sure does! Any info you can give is appreciated probably more than you realize  ;D When you signed up for our beloved CF, did they try and push you into a certain entry plan or give you any options? Just curious, but what is your class make-up like? Age, gender, all that bs  :threat:

 

[crankywitch]

No they didn't try to set my mind on something else but I was set on AVN, though they(recruiting) did feed me a lot of BS about other things which would be too long to get into, all I can say is be prepared, make sure you dot all your i's and cross all your t's with personal business before joining, ie: if you need to put stuff in storage make sure you do it after your enrollment, I believe you said you are married or common-law: make sure you have documented proof stuff like that. Borden itself is a little crazy, room inspection every fri, every tues is DEU inspection and you wear them alllllllll day even if working on the air craft (though you do have coveralls but when working with hydraulics of other messy stuff sometmes they are not enough)and if your hair's not cut right or you have a stain or spot or your boots aren't polished enough you WILL get weekend duties, there are a lot of "kids" here and some are absolutly riducles and do stupid stuff so it's easy to get fed up, they are strict around here because of they idiots they have to deal with around here but not too bad if you don't screw around they will treat you with respect if you treat them with espect,also when you do finish basic they usually send you here with a few days (if you grad on the thurs you will be here by the mon) and you will have to wait a few months to start your courses: first is BAEQ (basic air enviromental qualification) which is a week long snooze fest(though this you might get in right away)is basically learning a bit of history of the air force and some minor other stuff but it's all on power point so you start to go buggy after awhile, then you will sit for a couple months and finally start your common-core which is learning about the different tools, how to lock-wire, how to fill out all the 20 something different aircraft maintenance forms, marshalling; it's a precusor to the QL3 and is 36 days long (in class) so with holidays/weekends ect it will be longer, then if you are lucky within a few weeks you will be put in AVN course but prob not because there are people that have been sitting here right now for a couple months waiting to get on a course, so look at at least a good year and a half before all is said and done.

 

[crankywitch]

HMMM I think it's done there though I could be wrong but why would they be posting me there for my 5's if I can't be trained there? guess time will tell..but i'm pretty sure i'm trained there..

 

[aesop081]

HMMM I think it's done there though I could be wrong but why would they be posting me there for my 5's if I can't be trained there? guess time will tell..but i'm pretty sure i'm trained there..

I dont have all the facts of your situation but if you are being "posted" to Edmonton after your AVN QL3 , then you are not just going there for your type course. Whe i was working at a Tac Hel Sqn, technicians for the CH-146 were being trained at 438 but that was 3 years ago so things could have changed.

 

[Loachman]

crankywitch - check your PMs.

 

[Loachman]

From what I've been able to find out from asking some of our techs around here:

- You get posted to a Squadron, which in your case appears to be 408 Squadron.

- You do approximately six months of OJT, and there is a list of tasks that have to be performed during that period, in order to gain some familiarity with the aircraft and maintenance practices.

- You then go to 438 ETAH in St-Hubert for your formal course, which is three to four months long depending upon trade.

You could PM Laps on this site for 408 Squadron-specific questions.

Time spent in the field is not as much as it used to be, but there is a fair amount of away-time for aircrew and to a lesser degree for techs on a variety of taskings.

All Reg Force-Heavy Tac Hel Squadrons are located on Army bases, but that doesn't mean that you do the same amount of PT as somebody in an Army unit would do. There isn't as much time, for one. We have a Tuesday-morning sports period here and a Friday-morning "CO's Fitness Walk" on which everybody goes the same distance but load is up to the individual. Some will wear helmet, tac vest, and rucksack but many wear less. We all do the BFT, as that is the standard for deployment, in autumn/early winter. 408 Squadron probably does much the same.

 

[cp140tech]

HMMM I think it's done there though I could be wrong but why would they be posting me there for my 5's if I can't be trained there? guess time will tell..but i'm pretty sure i'm trained there..

  It's easier to have one main training location for each fleet, than to establish a school at every wing in Canada.  People get posted into Comox, do their OJT, go to Greenwood for type training and then return to their position in Comox.  I believe the Herc school is in Trenton, Sea Kings here in Shearwater... not sure if all the 18 folks train in Cold lake, but I expect you get the picture.

 

[pfl]

Yo yo yo guess what people!? Went down to the CFRC again tonight cause I was in the area and had just some quick questions, anyhow got some wicked news  Wanted to ask about pension plan, entry plans, and recruitment allowances. Turns out that if I don't want to enter through the subsidized route I can still just go straight through to Reg force and attend Borden (as long as my application goes smoothly), and it wouldn't be held as against me so-to-say in the long run. I knew that the recruitment allowances discussed in another thread were only for those who were already trained as AVN's, but I was curious if there were any signing bonuses for straight walk in recruits. Turns out that after something like 1 years service after training you go to Corporal, and begin at level 3 Pte pay rate after Basic. That's called money in the BANK! I was tempted to sign in right there. I dont think I have this wrong, but if anybody knows better or entered through with the same benefits feel free

I asked them though if it wasn't kind of strange to have 1 year Cpl's bossing around 3 year Pte's...they said it was no big deal because the relationship between Cpl's and Pte's isn't really a leadership role. Does this make sense to anybody?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yo yo yo guess what people!? Went down to the CFRC again tonight cause I was in the area and had just some quick questions, anyhow got some wicked news  Wanted to ask about pension plan, entry plans, and recruitment allowances. Turns out that if I don't want to enter through the subsidized route I can still just go straight through to Reg force and attend Borden (as long as my application goes smoothly), and it wouldn't be held as against me so-to-say in the long run. I knew that the recruitment allowances discussed in another thread were only for those who were already trained as AVN's, but I was curious if there were any signing bonuses for straight walk in recruits. Turns out that after something like 1 years service after training you go to Corporal, and begin at level 3 Pte pay rate after Basic. That's called money in the BANK! I was tempted to sign in right there. I dont think I have this wrong, but if anybody knows better or entered through with the same benefits feel free

I asked them though if it wasn't kind of strange to have 1 year Cpl's bossing around 3 year Pte's...they said it was no big deal because the relationship between Cpl's and Pte's isn't really a leadership role. Does this make sense to anybody?

Rank may be authority but it is not always knowledge.  Cpls and Ptes work close together and usually there is a shop/floor Cpl that keep a grip on things.  You will likely find if you go 'bossing people around' with no TI (time in) a MCpl might happen along and pull you aside and set things straight.  However, in the tech trades, your knowledge does translate to authority somewhat differenly I find, then the army.

However, despite what they said,  I disagree that Cpls don't play a leadership role, per se.  Cpl's can and do lead, Cpl's can give lawful commands, and Cpl's are Junior NCOs.  Period.  Cpls may not play much of a "management" role, which is a totally different topic.  Leadership does not equal management.

 

[pfl]

I've worked in management positions for some time now, and I agree, management and leadership are definitely 2 different things. Knowledge is always the key in both though

 

[PMedMoe]

Heck, I've seen three-year Ptes leading Cpls.  Just depends on who's the SME, right?  In this case it was someone with 3 years at a field unit training Cpls with no field time.
If you look at Lab Techs, they get in (already trained) get their Cpls after finishing basic and their MCpls a year (?) after that, IIRC.

 

[cp140tech]

I asked them though if it wasn't kind of strange to have 1 year Cpl's bossing around 3 year Pte's...they said it was no big deal because the relationship between Cpl's and Pte's isn't really a leadership role. Does this make sense to anybody?

  If you started bossing around Ptes as an unqualified Cpl... you would get smacked.  You don't know how to do anything, exactly what would you be telling them to do?  Our work environment is very knowledge/qualification based; you will be relying on the Ptes/Cpls who hold the quals to show you how the jobs are done.... you will be on the receiving end of direction for some time. 
  The same thing happens when you change fleets during your career.  I'm an AVN MCpl who has just been posted from Auroras to Sea Kings... when I go back to work off of leave the first thing I'm doing is finding the Ptes/Cpls who know what's going on and sucking every bit of info from them I can.  I  know squat about Sea Kings ... so it's start from scratch again.  You'll find rank has it's place, but don't push it to the forefront when it's not required.

 

[pfl]

  If you started bossing around Ptes as an unqualified Cpl... you would get smacked.  You don't know how to do anything, exactly what would you be telling them to do?  Our work environment is very knowledge/qualification based; you will be relying on the Ptes/Cpls who hold the quals to show you how the jobs are done.... you will be on the receiving end of direction for some time. 
  The same thing happens when you change fleets during your career.  I'm an AVN MCpl who has just been posted from Auroras to Sea Kings... when I go back to work off of leave the first thing I'm doing is finding the Ptes/Cpls who know what's going on and sucking every bit of info from them I can.  I  know squat about Sea Kings ... so it's start from scratch again.  You'll find rank has it's place, but don't push it to the forefront when it's not required.

Yeah thats pretty much what I was thinking. 

Has anybody here though gotten in through the same entry plan as I mentioned? Like what, you go to Cpl 1 year after getting your QL3's? And lvl 3 Pte pay is from when, BMQ?! or is that after Q's again.