Base closures?

[aesop081]

 
We have Greenwood but there is Shearwater an hour or two away
in Halifax.

Did you ever ask yourself why, or did you just look at a map and said "2 bases not far from eachother...thats not needed" ?

 

[McG]

We are in the electronic age and do we really need so many people in Ottawa.  Uplands, Rockcliffe and NDHQ.  Leave some offices in Ottawa and move the rest someplace cheaper, or a base with room.

So long as Ottawa & Gatineau are the national reference for PLD, there is probably not going to be a cheaper place to put that many people.  And, despite being in the electronic age, the cold reality is that people don't talk effectively when we move them appart.  I've seen communication fail between directorates in different buildings in the NCR just because people weren't talking enough to know what each of the other was doing.

We need to consolidate. 

I agree, but think you may be taking the idea to the wrong extreme of consolidation for the sake of consolidation.

 

[ArmyRick]

I can not speak about air force and navy, I simply lack the knowledge. Here is what I think the Army can consolidate down to.
-1 CMBG (Edmonton less 2VP and 1RCHA)
-2 CMBG (Petawawa less 2RCR)
-5 CMBG and SQFT TC (Valcatraz less 1 x bn of Van doos, not sure which)
-CTC and LFAA TC (Gagetown) + Aldershot Detachment
-CMTC and LFWA TC (Wainwright)
-2VP and 1RCHA, LFWA TC DET (Shilo)
-LFCA TC (Meaford) Keep this one open because its cheap compared to most bases and has an extremely high volume of troops trained (REG and PRES)

That leaves us with 7 locations for the LFC, I would say that is more than reasonable. Borden and Kingston? To me they are tri-service bases.

Thoughts? Rotten tomatoes pitched at me?

 

[ArmyRick]

How about closing St Jean? Seriously, that to me is not a very practical location for recruit training.

Solution, move recruit training to Area Training Centers and keep a National Recruit Training HQ in Borden (if its kept, which in my mind it should be).

 

[George Wallace]

Well to talk of closing any base is tragic and has huge personal consequences.  Just ask Summerside, Chatham , Chilliwack and Cornwallis. They were half way finished a brand new messhall in Summerside and poof!
So after reading this why so many Air force bases?
As for Borden, it has no real bus service and no airline or airport. So many schools, but CFSAL could go anywhere.  it's big school. 
The cook/steward school is an abandoned messhall, plenty of those around.  Sell off parts of Borden as house prices are fair compared to Barrie and there are so many commuters from Toronto in Angus or Lisle. 
We have Greenwood but there is Shearwater an hour or two away
in Halifax.  Gander, Goose Bay ????????
Cold lake and a couple hrs away Edmonton.  North Bay and Bagotville sitting up there.
We need to consolidate. 
We are in the electronic age and do we really need so many people in Ottawa.  Uplands, Rockcliffe and NDHQ.  Leave some offices in Ottawa and move the rest someplace cheaper, or a base with room.  Trenton has an airport.
The staff college in Toronto could be moved and sell off the land.  Set it up in Meaford or Gagetown. 
One thing we have to look at is save jobs for the Forces and don't move towards venues like the Coast Guard.




Some of the bases have pelnty of room to grow as many buildings are torn down.
One 

You really just showed us that you don't know that much after all.

Neither of the Shearwater or Edmonton airstrips are of much use any more.  The Brigade has build mega buildings on the airstrip in Edmonton.  Shearwater's strip is suffering from outside development.  North Bay is fairly much history these days.  Rockcliffe has been history for years now.  Most of Uplands has been torn down.  I highly doubt that Meaford or Gagetown are suitable for a Staff College that hosts numerous foreign officers to a greater benefit and less expense than Toronto.  I really doubt you have any concept of what is involved in the employment and training of members of the CF.  You are coming off as a Pork Barrelling Politician.

 

[George Wallace]

Actually........Shouldn't this topic be renamed?  Instead of "Base closures?", it should really be "Pork Barrelling" as that is all it is.  What the CF really needs and what the politicians land up doing when it comes to the stationing of CF personnel are usually two completely opposing propositions.

 

[McG]

Actually........Shouldn't this topic be renamed?  Instead of "Base closures?", it should really be "Pork Barrelling" as that is all it is. 

Given that the majority of participants in this thread will be speaking from the perspective of what they think is best for the CF, I don't think that is an appropriate label to slap on this conversation.

 

[Zoomie]

Close Edmonton in its entirety - retain a GSU for local Militia units.

1 and 3 VP relocate to Wainwright.  Return the Leopard tank to the fields of Shilo, throw in gun tubes while we're at it.  Lots of cheap real-estate in the Brandon area, room to expand.

Shut down Portage, relocate school in its entirety to a newly developed airfield at Shilo with Brandon as an IFR destination.  Shutdown CH-146 school in Gagetown and merge it with the current program at 3CFFTS - Basic FE course to be run concurrently with Phase 3 Helo. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Infrastructure can be moved. So can people. At the end of the day, if Ottawa says go, you will.

We're all in the Forces, I'm not debating whether I'm going to follow orders and move. I'm debating the actual cost savings and effort involved in morning 2 large and unique Signal units and 1 large school.

 

[AmmoTech90]

One problem with closing Borden would be where to put the CFAD.  Not only is that huge cost in money, it is a huge real estate bill.  Selling off the rest of Borden and keeping CFAD would simply result in the same problems as they have in Bedford with civilian development encroaching on their operations.

One thing about Trenton is that it is fairly close to Angus and Montreal where mission equipment is kept.  Montreal also has port facilities.

 

[old medic]

I'd leave Borden alone.  There are several ASU's and hollow remains of already closed bases that should be looked at
before most of the ones being discussed.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

ASU Calgary
ASU London
North Bay

 

[mad dog 2020]

Dear George
I may be 15 yrs behind the times. I have been posted to Cornwallis, Work Point, Borden, CFB Toronto and Lahr. I've been to Goose Bay, Wainwright, Chilliwack, Shilo, North Bay, Petawawa, Gagetown, Suffield and Shilo. I lived thru the decade of darkness and saw FRP (first hand). So I have a different perspective.
So many aren't here anymore.  I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box but I dare to say there may be a better or cheaper way to do business. I still think we got more (sorry) chiefs than indiginous people. 
So over the years many empires have been built and to even crack the foundations would be a task.  Pork Barrelling yes as why is St Jean- St Jean. Poor location and resources. Cornwallis wasn't all that great.
I truly believe we should go back to the YETP days and had dozens of platoons trained right in Wainwright and the NCOs brough the new kids back to the bns. 
So No, I am not current and type in point form. I guess I stimulated debate and I thank you for your input and enlightment. 
Peace bro, and melllllow..

 

[armyvern]

We're all in the Forces, I'm not debating whether I'm going to follow orders and move. I'm debating the actual cost savings and effort involved in morning 2 large and unique Signal units and 1 large school.

Large yes. Unique ~ not so much. CFJSR is another 1st line unit. Granted we are the largest 1st line unit in the entire of the Canadian Forces, but it's simply the commodity that differs and, that commodity's required clearance requirement can be found in other commodity holdings in units outside of sig units. Not special; just specialized. I've dealt with all kinds of kit & equipment requiring specialized handling & storage and security and it sure as heck is not the unique domain of the sigs world (sacrilege, I know, saying that --- especially given where I am currently serving, but true as heck).

While we are at it, the new Base Hospital under construction here in Kingston is coming along well ... and "here's your sign." 

Please, please, please ... re-locate me to a base with an actual and honest-to-goodness training area that can actually accomodate us in a field-deployed fashion.

 

[GAP]

Years after 2 VP moved to Shilo, the base & bldgs in Wpg. are still sitting there while everyone argues over who should get it.....

 

[DCRabbit]

No matter what the military says it needs or should be done to make operations more cost effective.. all the politicians are gonna care about is local economic impact and voting trends. I'm willing to bet nothing's gonna be gone from Ontario or Quebec.. if anything, they're gonna become busier. Too many HOC commons seats in play there. Especially in Ontario.

 

[DCRabbit]

I'd leave Borden alone.  There are several ASU's and hollow remains of already closed bases that should be looked at
before most of the ones being discussed.

Station a reg force unit at Borden. With the gutting of London, Toronto and OTtawa, the nation's capital and largest populated area have no defensive capability that I know of within quick deployment ability. PET is in the middle of nowhere. We do not have the capacity to defend this vast country.. but we do have some ability to defend our concentrated population centers.

If something is to close in Ontario, it would make sense to me to close Meaford and move it's operations to Borden if space permits. Closing Borden means relocatiing schools and units which would require more infrastructure construction cost at other locations. Closing Meaford means making money from the encroaching condos and resorts.

Note, tho.. my opinion is biased as Borden is my home. I'm also non-military so my knowledge is rather limited and this is my personal opinion only.

 

[aesop081]

Station a reg force unit at Borden. With the gutting of London, Toronto and OTtawa, the nation's capital and largest populated area have no defensive capability that I know of within quick deployment ability. PET is in the middle of nowhere. We do not have the capacity to defend this vast country.. but we do have some ability to defend our concentrated population centers.

Defend them against what ? What exactly is the threat to Ottawa ? Is Ontario about to be invaded ?

 

[DCRabbit]

Defend them against what ? What exactly is the threat to Ottawa ? Is Ontario about to be invaded ?

Neither is the rest of the country. But if a domestic incident is gonna happen that requires any kind of force it's gonna happen where the population is... not in the boonies.

 

[aesop081]

Neither is the rest of the country. But if a domestic incident is gonna happen that requires any kind of force it's gonna happen where the population is... not in the boonies.

Well, lets see........we responded to the Winnipeg floods well enough. We responded to the 98 ice storms too........Even managed to respond not too long ago to incidents in Newfoundland did we not ? Even managed to respond to fires in BC.....managed to be ready for major flooding in BC.........The Vancouver olympics....remember those ? Hell....lets talk about Oka......

Any kind of force.......wtf ??