Benefits Cut...

[GAP]

Baloney. The church has done it. Why can't we?

It is more than a job. Anyone willing to take a bullet for his fellow man as a condition of employment is, IMO, heard the call.

Yeah, but they got the cross first......what are you going to use for an image?  ;D

 

[Halifax Tar]

Baloney. The church has done it. Why can't we?

lol ok lets set ourselves up like the church there's a great path to follow...

How exactly do you make the CF a calling ?

It is more than a job. Anyone willing to take a bullet for his fellow man as a condition of employment is, IMO, heard the call.

Well I have met many people in the CF who have openly stated they have no intentions of ever going into harms way an will actively avoid it.  Hell I worked with one person who told me his career goal was to do 25 years and never leave Canada.  Your tugging at emotional, patriotic rah rah heart strings and unfortunately many people who join only do so because of the pay cheque  and the pension at the end.  That's a fact of life buddy. 

No matter how much I may agree with you just can't up and make something a calling.  For some people it will be for others it wont. 

 

[NavyHopeful]

So, between reading more of the postings on this topic, and speaking with my PO and a couple other people who have their finger on the pulse, I figure it's better just to deal with it, head on.

One of the pieces of advice I had received was to go to SISP and get them to draw up a budget with me, that would detail out a monthly spending regime.  That way, if need be, I can see where I can either afford this outcome, or not.  Right there in black and white.

When I asked about what I should do, should my budget costs exceed my monthly income, there was a lot of shrugging.  Apparently, the problem I am having with this isn't the removal of the benefits (I never wanted the damned things in the first place... I would've rather had my family move here from the get go), but the fact that there is still a lot of obscurity with how this will actually be implemented.

Hopefully, we can get some more information on the "how's" and not the "why's" of what is going on.  It isn't the loss that is frustrating, it's the not knowing what's really accurate, and what is just rumour.

 

[McG]

Anyway the last time I checked the Military allows your family to move with you.  Any choice made to leave your family behind is a personal choice, not the military.  Unless you are a service couple, then you sometimes don't have a choice. 

Your check was shallow & missed things - as a result you are commenting in ignorance.  Had you actually checked, you would have found things such as prohibited postings and unacompanied moves.

 

[newwifey]

Back on topic:

I am a member currently on IR.  My spouse is masters degree level teacher in a very specified field in Halifax.  I have no intention of asking her to give up her career and pension for my last 7 years of service. 

The cuts don't bother me, I could see the writing on the wall.

I'm going to sound kinda cranky here, but no disrespect is intended towards anyone.  Just so that's clear first!!

Situations like these are why the whole IR thing is being looked at and changed.  And of course the cuts shouldn't bother you, in cases like these, I don't think there should be IR benefits.

These are just my newbie wife opinions and if I'm way off base, my apologies.  I'm not up to speed on your policies:
If a member and his family CHOOSE to be separated because the spouse earns more money, can't/won't relocate their career, etc.  NO extras should be given.  That is a conscious decision, I assume, made by those families at that point in time.

If a member cannot move his family because the military said they couldn't go, why should the whole family be impacted?!?!?!

If a member did everything they were supposed to for requesting extensions so postings could coincide with real life happenings, like kids graduations, why should they be penalized and impacted?!?!?!?!

I won't even get started on the mortgages and changes to the envelopes.  Being a newbie, I see things a little differently than folks who have been in for some time.  My opinion isn't a popular one!!

The speculation this canforgen has caused has been ridiculous!  All those t's should have been crossed and i's dotted before this came out so it clearly stated the who's, what's, why's so everyone can stop flipping out!

*end rant*

 

[Jed]

An old Army saying; ' If the Army would've wanted you to have a wife and kids they would have issued you one. '

It appears as if this attitude is starting to come back. Most probably inevitable due to human nature, etc. Anyway, back to my orginal comment ... The military family will have to pull together more than ever during the times that are coming.

 

[bridges]

An old Army saying; ' If the Army would've wanted you to have a wife and kids they would have issued you one. '

It appears as if this attitude is starting to come back. Most probably inevitable due to human nature, etc.

:nod:    Yep.  It's as if the CF wants to mainly attract & keep single members (who don't own homes). 

One of the selling points of the recruiter was that either the military will pay for his lodgings, or we'll be together. 

Hmmm... seems like they might want to revise their spiel, and perhaps provide an actual estimate of what training will cost, in terms of separation-related expenses.

Meanwhile - is anybody in a position to help Quellefille with her question? 

 

[Wookilar]

Situations like these are why the whole IR thing is being looked at and changed.  And of course the cuts shouldn't bother you, in cases like these, I don't think there should be IR benefits.
[/quote]

Bingo!

When it really is a life style choice, then it should not be covered. Last year or two in highschool? Sure. Certain medical conditions? Maybe (Pet does not have the same access to health care as, say, Edmonton).

Spouse has a great job? No, sorry. My spouse had a great career, but she knew full well that when I was posted, it would be very difficult for her to recover that in the next posting. We made the LIFE STYLE decision that my job was more important (the whole "calling" thing I suppose).

If your spouse's job is so awesome, get off your high horse, get out and get yourself a job in that city. In the CF, there is no such thing a two important jobs in the family. There should only be one. Just as the needs of the CF dictate our postings, so does it dictate a number of factors in our lives.

We all knew this when we joined (or we should have), seems that some of us have forgotten.

Or maybe it really is coming down to the difference between a job and a calling?

(pm alreadfy sent to Quellefille)

 

[TCM621]

ok, someone give me a hand.

I am a brand spanking new military spouse.  He joined in January, just finished basic training last week(medical recourses suck) and now he's in borden.  He's got his schedule and he's got, like 5 different courses to get through.  I only recognize 2 of them, but basiclly starting in september he's on course for a few weeks, then off course for a few weeks until March when he gets onto his trade course.  he will be done his training in borden in September of 2013, but non of his individual courses are over 6 months.

We can't afford to keep two households.  One of the selling points of the recruiter was that either the military will pay for his lodgings, or we'll be together.  They did talk about what would happen if he got shipped somewhere expensive and my answer was I'd go.  It's just me and him and I'm unemployed at the moment so if I was offered a move I would be there in an instant.

But I read this whole briefing and it seems to say that he's going to have to start paying for his rations and board and we can't afford that.  I'm happy to go live in a pmq in borden with him, I'd be ready to go tomorrow if they said the word, but no ones brought that up and no ones told him that I can move at all.  Toss in the fact that he's french and sometimes the way he explains things isn't quite right.

Can someone help me.  Without a million acronyms.  I don't speak acronym yet.  I'm working on it, but this whole things is overwhelming.

The first step is for him to write a memo asking for a contingency cost move for personal reasons, citing the prohibitive cost of the new rules. After that he can contact the ombudsman but I would be prepared for a bit of a wait as imagine he will be busy for awhile. There is a daod or qr&o that covers contingency cost moves but I'm posting from my phone so I can't tell you which one it is. It should definitely be read.

 

[Quellefille]

Spouse has a great job? No, sorry. My spouse had a great career, but she knew full well that when I was posted, it would be very difficult for her to recover that in the next posting. We made the LIFE STYLE decision that my job was more important (the whole "calling" thing I suppose).

If your spouse's job is so awesome, get off your high horse, get out and get yourself a job in that city. In the CF, there is no such thing a two important jobs in the family. There should only be one. Just as the needs of the CF dictate our postings, so does it dictate a number of factors in our lives.

We all knew this when we joined (or we should have), seems that some of us have forgotten.

Or maybe it really is coming down to the difference between a job and a calling?

When my dude signed up, he asked me this, asked me what I would do if I had an amazing job that I couldn't leave.  And the answer is that if there is a job thats more important that my husband, then either I need to dump the husband or we'd need to make some sacrifices.  If they said 'ok, but she has to move tomorrow' my answer would be 'Well how soon can I get an advance'  because I'd be ready to go in a jiffy.  Thats the life I signed up for when he was sworn in.  But NO ONE on my dudes platoon has been told they'll have to start paying rations in september and some of them have large families back home so they're in for a nasty shock.

 

[bridges]

(pm alreadfy sent to Quellefille) 

Thanks.  I wasn't sure if she was still out there, waiting while we discussed the philosophical underpinnings of a career in the CF.

Agreed, on the job vs. calling thing.  There are many other honourable ways to serve one's society too - some equally dangerous, in different ways.  We are unique but not the only one.  In the reality of it, if we got rid of everyone in the CF who does NOT constantly want to make their job # 1 over their family or financial health, it would probably be a much smaller force.  Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. 

 

[bridges]

The first step is for him to write a memo asking for a contingency cost move for personal reasons, citing the prohibitive cost of the new rules. After that he can contact the ombudsman but I would be prepared for a bit of a wait as imagine he will be busy for awhile. There is a daod or qr&o that covers contingency cost moves but I'm posting from my phone so I can't tell you which one it is. It should definitely be read.

Here's the link:  http://www.admfincs-smafinsm.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5003-6-eng.asp

Not sure if it would apply to this kind of situation though. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Before suggesting anyone run off directly to the Ombudsman, you'd better read DAOD 5047-1, Office of the Ombudsman, specifically:

- Operating Principles, Failure to Comply and

- Annex A, (Existing Mechanisms), Para 13.


Additionally, I would start off with getting a copy of the Basic Training List Administrative Guide (BTAGs) and read Section 3 to understand the policies WRT CF members who are not occupationally qualified/not at Career Status.  There are some options that can be requested/looked at.

 

[Journeyman]

After that he can contact the ombudsman....

  :not-again:

Step #1 - write a memo
Step #2 - Ombudsman?!      Perhaps "giving informed advice" isn't for you.

 

[Quellefille]

Additionally, I would start off with getting a copy of the Basic Training List Administrative Guide (BTAGs) and read Section 3 to understand the policies WRT CF members who are not occupationally qualified/not at Career Status.  There are some options that can be requested/looked at.

ok, where do I get this?  Google is failing me.  i'm willing to do the work and the reading (As the dude is currently at borden being shown around and I have the free time)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Its not avail on the internet that I could find, which is why I didn't attach a copy to my post.  However, your dude should be able to get it from whoever he works for from the CF IntraNet.

While I understand your desire to be helpful, etc I also think you need to understand, early on, that there are some things that as the spouse, you are going to have to let your dude handle, as he is the CF member.  I don't mean that to be condesending in any way and hope you understand what I am saying.  Its more important that HE reads and understands the document.

Again, I mean no offense, but "my wife was talking to someone on a forum and they told her that  :blah:" won't help him much at all.  ;D

 

[TCM621]

  :not-again:

Step #1 - write a memo
Step #2 - Ombudsman?!      Perhaps "giving informed advice" isn't for you.

And what would you suggest? I am assuming that we are not talking just being financially uncomfortable but actual financial hardship. The first step is  a memo requesting a solution within the current rules. If that doesn't work the ombudsman is there for that kind of stuff. Obviously try to work with the system firstbut if that doesn't work that is why the positions was created.

 

[Jimmy_D]

How about:

1: Memo
2: Financial Counceller
3: (If a real hardship and not too many toys) the Padre
4: Then if it comes down to it the Ombudsman

 

[Occam]

And what would you suggest? I am assuming that we are not talking just being financially uncomfortable but actual financial hardship. The first step is  a memo requesting a solution within the current rules. If that doesn't work the ombudsman is there for that kind of stuff. Obviously try to work with the system firstbut if that doesn't work that is why the positions was created.

If you're serving, the Ombudsman is not an avenue you can use unless you have either:

A.  Exhausted the grievance process; or
B.  You are not getting a response via the grievance process (note - this does not mean you don't like that they've asked you for an extension, it means you're not getting ANY response from a submitted grievance, IAW the published time limits for grievances)

The Ombudsman's office will tell you that they cannot help you unless you have gone the grievance route first.  Did you read the DAOD on the Ombudsman?

 

[Journeyman]

And what would you suggest?

Since you asked, I would suggest, (as per Eye In The Sky post #292 and Occam post #298) that there is a system in place and parameters for its use. Escalating from a memo to the soldier's Sgt directly to the Ombudsman may not be the brightest move; in fact, as noted via MilPoints, it's likely the dumbest advice I've seen offered here.

As such, I suggest you may wish to adhere to that recurring phrase here -- stay in your lane (which in this instance appears to be repetitively wringing your hands and bemoaning your lot in life) -- and NOT give dubious advice that could have potential repercussions for the member in question.