Benefits Cut...

[Grunt_031]

Like how about not keeping guys making 50 grand a year stay on pat platoon doing nothing for 2 or 3 years. I know a large number of guys doing that. It is just an example, but taking it out of the soldiers pockets is not the way to do it. For those of you that remember the 90s, wait for it. I forsee it being a lot like it was back then and that is what pisses me off the most.

I can see the reclassification of pers on PAT as in the 90's to critically short trades, if there are any. I remember a couple AVN Techs and MPs offered Cook or MSEOp or release.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Nothing wrong with owning "nice" cars BUT when there are articles about CF soldiers at food banks, maybe a "nice" car is too much.

Don't expect the taxpayer to pay for your "nice" car.

I agree with that statement, but I have not read an article about CF members using food banks in a while.  I bet that guy with the Porsche isn't the one complaining about CF pay.

 

[Gramps]

In the mid 90's I remember a couple of stories about members using food banks. I also distinctly remember a fund raising drive so a young member could get holiday food and presents for his family.

 

[Cdnleaf]

...But when the military is not allowing your to move your family with you, you should get compensated for the fact that you now have to pay for two lives.

At the risk of sounding insensitive - why the entitlement to compensation?  You made an informed decision to join with a family; similarly I joined ~25 years ago with a suitcase. In hindsight for the first 6 years of my career believed being in the shacks paying rations was a great deal on my otherwise meager pay. Not happy, miss your family and can't afford it...get out. There is a line up at the recruiting centre and I offer that nugget to anyone who feels beleaguered by our current compensation package(s) (to include postings/movement of DF&E etc.).  All the best with your situation.

 

[Jarnhamar]

and I offer that nugget to anyone who feels beleaguered by our current compensation package(s)

I have a great spot in mind for that nugget of yours.

The whole "if you don't like it, quit" is a shitty mentality that's a double edged blade. Some took the very same attitude towards gays wanting to be allowed in the cf, women in the combat arms etc..

Do you really think the CF can afford to push that mind set?  You don't like back to back to back tours? Gtfo then..
Perhaps not the very same thing but for an organization facing a lack of instructors, lack of speciality trades, lack of targeted diverse visible minorities that whole if you don't love it leave mantra is weak.

 

[Sub_Guy]

...But when the military is not allowing your to move your family with you, you should get compensated for the fact that you now have to pay for two lives.

At the risk of sounding insensitive - why the entitlement to compensation?  You made an informed decision to join with a family; similarly I joined ~25 years ago with a suitcase. In hindsight for the first 6 years of my career believed being in the shacks paying rations was a great deal on my otherwise meager pay. Not happy, miss your family and can't afford it...get out. There is a line up at the recruiting centre and I offer that nugget to anyone who feels beleaguered by our current compensation package(s) (to include postings/movement of DF&E etc.).  All the best with your situation.

You have to be kidding me right?  I have heard some stupid things over the past few days, but this tops the list.

Anyway the last time I checked the Military allows your family to move with you.  Any choice made to leave your family behind is a personal choice, not the military.  Unless you are a service couple, then you sometimes don't have a choice.  It should always be on the mind of service couples that when posting season comes around one of you could be posted.

In the mid 90's I remember a couple of stories about members using food banks. I also distinctly remember a fund raising drive so a young member could get holiday food and presents for his family.

I was a base brat during the lean years, I do recall that the cupboards and fridge looked pretty bare a few days before pay day.  Amazingly though, my father always seemed to have beer and smokes!  I will be the first to call BS on the food bank families, it is all about priorities and a good budget. 

 

[TCM621]

...But when the military is not allowing your to move your family with you, you should get compensated for the fact that you now have to pay for two lives.

At the risk of sounding insensitive - why the entitlement to compensation?  You made an informed decision to join with a family; similarly I joined ~25 years ago with a suitcase. In hindsight for the first 6 years of my career believed being in the shacks paying rations was a great deal on my otherwise meager pay. Not happy, miss your family and can't afford it...get out. There is a line up at the recruiting centre and I offer that nugget to anyone who feels beleaguered by our current compensation package(s) (to include postings/movement of DF&E etc.).  All the best with your situation.

Been in 16 years chief, why should I have to quit my career and give up the pension I have been working for? Guys like you are the reason why the military has a hard time keeping quality people. You know what happens when you say, "Don't like it, Get out"? The best and the brightest leave unless they are really, really keen to serve. You get left with the dregs of the army. How about we make the CF a competitive employer who actually attracts quality people and keeps them. What a concept.

 

[PuckChaser]

You have to be kidding me right?  I have heard some stupid things over the past few days, but this tops the list.

Anyway the last time I checked the Military allows your family to move with you.  Any choice made to leave your family behind is a personal choice, not the military.  Unless you are a service couple, then you sometimes don't have a choice.  It should always be on the mind of service couples that when posting season comes around one of you could be posted.

I think he was referring to guys on prohibited postings, basically waiting a year or more for courses without their families and paying for 2 households.

 

[Strike]

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.  Fellas in Q's can't own nice cars?  Not everyone living in PMQ's is financially retarded.

No, there's nothing wrong, but I remember those news bits in the 90s when people were complaining about how low our salaries were while they had RVs and boats sitting in their driveways.

IOW, these people with the nice cars and all the toys better think twice before complaining to the media because they won't get much sympathy from Joe Q Public, who will automatically question their priorities.

 

[Gramps]

I will be the first to call BS on the food bank families, it is all about priorities and a good budget.

Call BS all you like, I remember it being on the TV news and in print. I could not find links to the original stories but found some reference to them.

From the Canadian encyclopedia " . A parliamentary commission learned that lower-rank pay was so low that some married soldiers sought part-time jobs or visited food banks to feed their families."
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/m/article.cfm?params=A1&id=A0000307

From CBC " During the 1990s, a series of highly publicized articles on military personnel using food banks fuelled a widely held belief that our military is grossly underpaid."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/01/13/f-vp-smol.html

From The Canadian Parliamentary Review. " They were told of sailors who had to live onboard ship because they could not afford local rents for even the most basic accommodation. They heard of military personnel who had to go to food banks in order to be able to feed their young families."

http://www.revparl.ca/english/issue.asp?param=70&art=131

 

[PPCLI Guy]

How about we make the CF a competitive employer who actually attracts quality people and keeps them.

Given that we have a monopoly on the exercise of state violence, and have the rather unusual clause of unlimited liability, what or who exactly are we competing with?

If you mean a job, well sure - many of us could make shed loads more money on civie street, including me.  The reason I (and I suspect many others) don't "get out" is that we like the fact that what we do actually matters in the greater sense.  It is important.  Someone has to so it. I am one of the people I trust to do it on behalf of my family, loved ones, and country.

So, I have a counter proposal. How about we make the CF a calling vice a "competitive employer", and foster a sense of belief in the rightness of what we do, from recruitment through to retirement.  That will attract and keep the right people, and not just enough people.

 

[PuckChaser]

Given that we have a monopoly on the exercise of state violence, and have the rather unusual clause of unlimited liability, what or who exactly are we competing with?

These guys? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0l3E8_FuFc  ;D

 

[mariomike]

How about we make the CF a calling vice a "competitive employer",

"More than a job. A calling."

Saw that on a wall poster where I used to work.

 

[OldSolduer]

Given that we have a monopoly on the exercise of state violence, and have the rather unusual clause of unlimited liability, what or who exactly are we competing with?

If you mean a job, well sure - many of us could make shed loads more money on civie street, including me.  The reason I (and I suspect many others) don't "get out" is that we like the fact that what we do actually matters in the greater sense.  It is important.  Someone has to so it. I am one of the people I trust to do it on behalf of my family, loved ones, and country.

So, I have a counter proposal. How about we make the CF a calling vice a "competitive employer", and foster a sense of belief in the rightness of what we do, from recruitment through to retirement.  That will attract and keep the right people, and not just enough people.

I quite agree. Good post.

 

[Journeyman]

So, I have a counter proposal. How about we make the CF a calling vice a "competitive employer", and foster a sense of belief in the rightness of what we do, from recruitment through to retirement.  That will attract and keep the right people, and not just enough people.

 

[Quellefille]

ok, someone give me a hand.

I am a brand spanking new military spouse.  He joined in January, just finished basic training last week(medical recourses suck) and now he's in borden.  He's got his schedule and he's got, like 5 different courses to get through.  I only recognize 2 of them, but basiclly starting in september he's on course for a few weeks, then off course for a few weeks until March when he gets onto his trade course.  he will be done his training in borden in September of 2013, but non of his individual courses are over 6 months.

We can't afford to keep two households.  One of the selling points of the recruiter was that either the military will pay for his lodgings, or we'll be together.  They did talk about what would happen if he got shipped somewhere expensive and my answer was I'd go.  It's just me and him and I'm unemployed at the moment so if I was offered a move I would be there in an instant.

But I read this whole briefing and it seems to say that he's going to have to start paying for his rations and board and we can't afford that.  I'm happy to go live in a pmq in borden with him, I'd be ready to go tomorrow if they said the word, but no ones brought that up and no ones told him that I can move at all.  Toss in the fact that he's french and sometimes the way he explains things isn't quite right.

Can someone help me.  Without a million acronyms.  I don't speak acronym yet.  I'm working on it, but this whole things is overwhelming.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Call BS all you like, I remember it being on the TV news and in print. I could not find links to the original stories but found some reference to them.

From the Canadian encyclopedia " . A parliamentary commission learned that lower-rank pay was so low that some married soldiers sought part-time jobs or visited food banks to feed their families."
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/m/article.cfm?params=A1&id=A0000307

From CBC " During the 1990s, a series of highly publicized articles on military personnel using food banks fuelled a widely held belief that our military is grossly underpaid."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/01/13/f-vp-smol.html

From The Canadian Parliamentary Review. " They were told of sailors who had to live onboard ship because they could not afford local rents for even the most basic accommodation. They heard of military personnel who had to go to food banks in order to be able to feed their young families."

http://www.revparl.ca/english/issue.asp?param=70&art=131

I recall the same news stories.  My main point was that with a sound budget they would probably not have to resort to food banks.  My parents made it work, and I recall them complaining about the same news stories.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I recall the same news stories.  My main point was that with a sound budget they would probably not have to resort to food banks.  My parents made it work, and I recall them complaining about the same news stories.

You can't use anecdotal evidence for something like that.  Some members do have messed up priorities and will bitch about money but always have a fridge full of beer and cigarettes.  Others may have genuine money problems and through fault of their own or not are barely scraping by.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So, I have a counter proposal. How about we make the CF a calling vice a "competitive employer", and foster a sense of belief in the rightness of what we do, from recruitment through to retirement.  That will attract and keep the right people, and not just enough people.

Because you cant make something a calling.  For some people it is for others its just a job. 

How do you propose we screen for those with "the calling" during the recruitment process ?  Or how do we deal with those who join because of the calling and then as time goes on they begin to see the CF as a job and a means to a pension ?


Back on topic:

I am a member currently on IR.  My spouse is masters degree level teacher in a very specified field in Halifax.  I have no intention of asking her to give up her career and pension for my last 7 years of service. 

The cuts don't bother me, I could see the writing on the wall. 

 

[OldSolduer]

Because you cant make something a calling.

Baloney. The church has done it. Why can't we?

It is more than a job. Anyone willing to take a bullet for his fellow man as a condition of employment is, IMO, heard the call.