Benefits Cut...

[Occam]

I'm sorry, but everything after that was just white noise...........................

Without knowing the circumstances, it's not really fair to say that, Bruce.  There are a lot of people in Edmonton right now with mortgages worth more than their homes are, because of the dive in the market out there.  A quick look at the Home Equity Assistance thread will show that.  That's a pretty powerful incentive to stick around and hope the market swings back.  From what I hear, Cold Lake isn't a particularly cheap place to buy now either, so there's a disincentive to move there if you're already in a hole and trying to climb out...

 

[TCM621]

So if this stays as is, I'll be looking at a couple of options;
-taking two full moves at a significant cost to the crown ($60-80k)

Hope it'll change, this is pretty shortsighted.  Might save $30M on paper, but if you alienate a good portion of the trainees there may not be anyone left in the pipes to run or maintain any of the fancy new gear they may or may not ever buy.

Here's the thing. It will end up costing the military money in the long and short term. For a person who is on course for a year or in a very short term posting. Spending 1000 or so bucks a month in SE benefits is still cheaper than two cost moves in that same year period.

Another thing is that right now we have a great opportunity to recruit some great semi-skilled technicians as the Military is seen as having job security. These people tend to be older with a family. Now try to recruit this guy with, "Well it will cost you 800-1000 bucks a month to go do basic and your trades training. And you have to leave your family at home."

I just can't see an upside to this that couldn't be better served by just properly administering the rules that are in place.

 

[TCM621]

Without knowing the circumstances, it's not really fair to say that, Bruce.  There are a lot of people in Edmonton right now with mortgages worth more than their homes are, because of the dive in the market out there.  A quick look at the Home Equity Assistance thread will show that.  That's a pretty powerful incentive to stick around and hope the market swings back.  From what I hear, Cold Lake isn't a particularly cheap place to buy now either, so there's a disincentive to move there if you're already in a hole and trying to climb out...

Cold Lake has disgusting home prices. It is one of the few posting where selling my house in Victoria wouldn't put me much ahead (granted I have one of the cheapest houses in Victoria). And its cold lake.

The average price of a home in Cold Lake is $322,088 (Northeastern Alberta Realtor Association, 2010).
Average price for an 1 bedroom apartment with heat included in Cold Lake is $595.00 per month and a three-bedroom apartment is $1,024 (Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation)

 

[Jarnhamar]

Feel free to tell me to suck it up and go find another job if I don't like it.  I don't want to, but I'm also not stupid.  On the plus side, all the (expensive) training I've gotten has given me some pretty marketable skills.  So if push comes to shove I may pull the plug with much regret and work elsewhere, and the CF will never get back it's investment.

I hear you. I'm in the infantry, good luck replacing me!  ;D

Without knowing the circumstances, it's not really fair to say that, Bruce.  There are a lot of people in Edmonton right now with mortgages worth more than their homes are, because of the dive in the market out there.  A quick look at the Home Equity Assistance thread will show that.  That's a pretty powerful incentive to stick around and hope the market swings back.  From what I hear, Cold Lake isn't a particularly cheap place to buy now either, so there's a disincentive to move there if you're already in a hole and trying to climb out...

I'm with Bruce on this one.  In the context of the article it sounds like they simply decided she's going to stay home and try to stick it out.

[quote[was posted to CFB Cold Lake last October, but she decided to stay in the family’s mobile home.
thought her family could handle the separation.
You wouldn't be able to come home on weekends[/quote]

When I read this the picture I see painted is that he got posted "not too far away" so they figured he go on IR get the extra cash and just commute on weekends. I've met a few guys on IR who have zero intention of moving their families and intended to milk IR for as long as possible..
There may be other circumstances not mentioned in the case above of course.

Gullacher said her husband doesn't have a kitchenette in his room at the base so he would have to purchase meals in the military mess.

She said a full meal plan costs $550, which is about the same amount she used to spend on groceries to feed her entire family of four for a month.

This I agree with. People in the shacks shouldn't be forced to pay rations if they don't want to.

 

[meni0n]

This will pretty much stop most people who are married or have dependents from applying.

 

[smale436]

"Average price for an 1 bedroom apartment with heat included in Cold Lake is $595.00 per month and a three-bedroom apartment is $1,024 (Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation)"

- Those numbers are either extremely outdated or, more likely in my opinion, right out to lunch. I've lived in CL for 4 years and right now the WCom has been working hard to get the high PMQ rents addressed with the higher-ups. His biggest issue is how the oil and gas industry is creating havoc with the local market housing charges, which is what the CFHA increases are tied to and how  Edmonton has much more beneficial and Quality of LIfe services yet receives twice the amount of PLD. (Cold Lake gets 320)

Having been in the boat of being a renter in Cold Lake, people are renting individual bedrooms in their houses for $800-900 and sharing the kitchen, laundry, etc. The few apartment blocks in town are $1000-1200 for 1 and 2BR and houses and condos are renting for $1800-2000. Higher for larger, executive type houses.

 

[aesop081]

The few apartment blocks in town are $1000-1200 for 1 and 2BR 

That's what I pay for a shitty 2-bedroom in Ottawa and no PLD here.

 

[4Feathers]

The war is over! We have entered a period of Force Reduction (Program) by other means. Its starting to feel like 1992 again.
I would love to see how the army now intends to get SNCO's to be posted to CFB Wainwright next summer.Brutal.

Pretty much sums it up perfectly.

 

[Cdnleaf]

That's what I pay for a shitty 2-bedroom in Ottawa and no PLD here.

At start of IR was informed that I wasn't entitled to 2 bedrooms (same price) in Kanata. So I ended up getting a 1 bedroom @ 1600 + 100 for parking downtown - which was ok. There is going to be some creative lease agreements in lieu of the changes ie. $1000 for a basement apartment / how about 1700 with parking and abate $400 for a meal allowance?  After 3 years I'm off IR thank god and I'm not endorsing the 'creative leasing,' just sayin.

 

[Adam]

I'm trying to help a friend of mine who is caught in a tough situation.  My friend and I worked together for the last year, he was injured on BMQ and was attached to my unit while he recovered.  He recently left his wife and 3 young children to attend BMQ.  Today, the staff told him he would be required to pay Rations & Quarters and would loose all his separation benefits due to the new policy.  He can not afford to attend BMQ/QL 3.  How on earth does Ottawa expect all these Privates with families to survive.

This guy was one of the best hard working troops I have ever worked.  And I would hate to see his family evicted from the Q's because he has to pay for $600 for the five star accommodations in St Jean.  I think he has grounds for a grievance but I need advice on what steps I should take to help.

 

[wesleyd]

I'm sorry, but everything after that was just white noise...........................
[/quote
Their choice was was between having a roof over their heads or being bankrupt, they live in a mobile home because they can't afford anything else as they have lost so much from several previous postings.
A little empathy doesn't hurt.

 

[PuckChaser]

He won't get money anytime soon. Here's the grievance link: http://www.cfga.forces.gc.ca/index-eng.asp.

Only way he can get something changed soon is if his wife goes to the media, and make sure she says its a prohibited posting, which is not his choice to be separated. This is a junk policy being blanket applied to prohibited vice IR folks.

 

[Strike]

He won't get money anytime soon. Here's the grievance link: http://www.cfga.forces.gc.ca/index-eng.asp.

Only way he can get something changed soon is if his wife goes to the media, and make sure she says its a prohibited posting, which is not his choice to be separated. This is a junk policy being blanket applied to prohibited vice IR folks.

Before anyone jumps the gun and goes to the media with what they THINK they know, maybe people should get all the facts.

He will NOT have to pay for quarters.  He WILL have to pay for rations HOWEVER many bases are looking very closely at having a pay-as-you-go option and, although he will likely be at all meals during the week, those weekends when he has a chance to head off the base, he may not get stuck paying for a meal he may not eat.

If the $550 odd a month is going to be such a hardship, I highly recommend that he ask the staff for an appointment with SISIP, who will help him in sorting out an appropriate budget for his family.

Once all of this information and these actions are taken, he could consider going the route suggested by PC, but I'm sure his chain of command would not be impressed.

 

[wesleyd]

No they won't.  New candidates will not miss something they never had.

They'll think twice about signing when they find out they have to pay 500+ bucks out of their paycheck during training. Especially the candidates with spouse and children.

 

[PuckChaser]

SISIP will just give him a low interest loan. Making soldiers take out loans to pay for being forced away from their families is crazy. Media is definitely a last resort. I think the problem with the rations is that it'll take them months to figure out a policy and this young soldier will just get further and further into debt, which is great when they move to an area where he's forced to live on the economy because the CF tore down all the PMQs and they can't afford a mortgage.

 

[aesop081]

They'll think twice about signing when they find out they have to pay 500+ bucks out of their paycheck during training. Especially the candidates with spouse and children.

The single guys will still join, just like they always have. Those with no spouses have always paid R&Q so no change. I was paying a little over $350/month in Petawawa back in 1993 (inflation has not stood still since then), it didn't stop any of use from joining.

The married guys might find it tougher. Some will balk, those that want to do this will do it anyways.

 

[Strike]

SISIP will just give him a low interest loan...

Well, I guess their web site lies then.

https://public.cfpsa.com/en/AboutUs/SISIPFS/FinancialCounselling/Pages/default.aspx

This is why you should never take forum advice as the last word.  Tell your buddy to make an appointment with the OR to get the straight scoop and talk to someone from SISIP.

 

[aesop081]

SISIP will just give him a low interest loan.

Think again.

 

[buzgo]

Maybe what this really indicates is that times and attitudes change and we need to come up with a more flexible IR (or posting) system that isn't designed for a 1 year separation but can accommodate different situations.

My wife doesn't have a job, she has a career, do people seriously think that she should give up her career because of a posting? She certainly doesn't think she should have to do that, and she worked a lot harder than I did to get to where she is. We agree that life in the military involves sacrifices, but those sacrifices are things like multiple operational deployments, exercises, long courses - being forced into poverty for a posting shouldn't be on the list. I know people who spouses are teachers, professors, nurses, doctors - they don't have a lot of flexibility to pack up and leave their careers - are they supposed to find a job at Tim Horton's or something?

I am ok with the cuts as long as the housing allowance is still there, I fully intend to apply for IR for my next posting because my family will not move right now, I'm not saying never, but just not right now.

This is 2012 not 1972. If the CF wants to hold on to valuable experienced and highly qualified people, and attract the type of people that we need for the future then its time to wake up and modernize some of the Victorian era policies and mentalities that are floating around out there.

 

[aesop081]

My wife doesn't have a job, she has a career, do people seriously think that she should give up her career because of a posting?

My only concern with this type of consideration is that, as a single guy, i don't want to be the one moving every single APS because the married guy's wife has a job and doesn't want to move.

"You don't want to move because of your wife's career, no problem, we'll just post Bloggins, he's single".

It already happens enough.