DirtyDog said:
I don't want to be associated with a group that wants to come out with low ball PC fitness standards.
Good. Move along, please.
But first, what does "politically correct" have to do with any of this?
And, by the way, people with a little more time in than
DirtyDog said:
(A year out of training),
have decided that both the EXPRES Test and BFT meet the requirements of the CF, until better measures are found. You're outvoted.
DirtyDog said:
I may not have a lot of knowledge for what certain people do in their day to day jobs in the military,
Book.
DirtyDog said:
Cover.
DirtyDog said:
Judgement.
You're not supposed to do that, you know.
DirtyDog said:
MY problem was with this specific policy, and the attitude behind it, that's want to set a low ball standard.
"Low ball" based upon what?
What justification is there to have a higher minimum standard? Opinion does not count. There has to be clear justification.
Show me examples of people who meet the standards but are not capable of doing their jobs. That should be interesting, being as you have freely admitted that you do not know what they do in the first place.
DirtyDog said:
but they should atleast meet the CF minimum
Yes, and action is taken if they do not.
DirtyDog said:
which is too low as it is.
Based upon what justification, again...?
DirtyDog said:
This idea from another poster
That would be this poster, right here.
DirtyDog said:
that since they are so busy maintaining aircraft (or whatever) to do PT
That is NOT what I said.
After an irreverant summary of Infantry physical requirements, I said: "That is not part of our job requirement, and there is therefore no need to train to that level".
Now, if you think that I am wrong in that statement, please feel free to rebut.
My statement is based upon simple fact, ie it is not a stated requirement, and upon experience - twenty-six times your "year out of training" in my current environment alone plus over nine additional years in other areas.
I then went on to say "We could spend as much time on PT as Combat Arms folk, but to what benefit to anybody?", etcetera. Now, as I said, you have a choice - we could meet your personal fitness standard or we could provide you with helicopter support, but not both. There are not enough of us or enough time in the day to do both. That is reality.
DirtyDog said:
as it isn't a high priority to the job doesn't cut it for me.
You know what? I do not care what "cuts it for you". Your opinion is irrelevant.
And should you be in the unfortunate situation of bleeding badly somewhere someday, you'll realize that, too. You will not care one bit if I can do ten push-ups or a hundred, only that I can get you to where you really need to be in time. Likewise, you'll not care how many sit-ups the people that put me into the air can do, only that the helicopter works.
DirtyDog said:
That sounds like an excuse for being out of shape.
Define "out of shape".
You be "in shape" to do your job, and I'll be "in shape" to do mine, thank-you very much.
DirtyDog said:
If it's not, and a just an explanation as to why a mechanic may not be fit enough to hump 100lbs up a mountainside,
It is, and he/she does not have to be.
DirtyDog said:
Also, this crap about being held to a pilot medical standard (no problem here) or being instrument rated is a joke. Gimme a break. No one said you have to do "everything" we do.
Some people seem to think so, especially on the PT side, and I did not specifically say you.
DirtyDog said:
Just that people remember they are in the military and that some of us don't like being associated with out of shape slobs that don't carry themselves like dedicated militay members.
Some of us don't like being associated with holier-than-thou types who have no clue what others do and why, either.
And I've seen plenty of super-fit prettyboys who are more dedicated to their Schwartzenegger imitation than their proper military job, too, by the way, as well as those who have a struggle with the EXPRES Test yet contribute far more.
DirtyDog said:
It's almost as if some people want to say certain trades are basically just that, tradesmen in uniforms. That's bullshi1t to me, I'm sorry.
It's also reality, more than you think, and I'm sorry about that.
DirtyDog said:
"Soldiers first" may seem like a ridiculous or gun-ho addage to some, but to me, in the military this should be the rule not the exception.
It's a nice ideal.
DirtyDog said:
I've worked a couple of ranges and was truly floored at how BAD a vast majority of the non-combat arms, non-army types shot. It was horrible and it was not just a few.
I have seen that, more than once, and it has been truly scary at times. And it was that way, too, in The Good Old Days when we had far more ammunition to shoot as well.
I could also tell you about some of the dumb things that some physically-fit Combat Arms types have done to helicopters for which I have signed, or have come way too close to doing for my comfort. In one case, the helicopter was laid up for three months while Bell figured out
how to fix it, as nobody had ever damaged that part (major structural member) with a stretcher before, let alone that badly. The actual repair took another month or two on top of that. I've also seen a few of you come really close to serious injury.
DirtyDog said:
MWOs, Majors, and LTCs were not immune.
There are no "LTCs" in the CF.
DirtyDog said:
I'm really not trying to bash anyone here,
Other than calling us fat, out-of-shape slobs...
DirtyDog said:
I realize for many it was their first PWT 3, but a PWT 3 is NOT that hard and anyone deploying to a combat enviroment, as these people were, should atleast show some sort of aptness for a very basic soldier skill.
As well as meeting the fitness requirements for that deployment, most definitely.
DirtyDog said:
The RSO had a lot of complaints from those shooting that it was "unfair" for them to be expected to pass.
They should have failed, and been told that it was "unfair" for others' lives to be put at risk, and then been given additional range time in order to meet the standard or been dagged red.
DirtyDog said:
This was an example of one of things that has led me to have a dissatisfaction with some people.
And some dissatisfaction is natural, however it should be tempered somewhat.
DirtyDog said:
I have a lot of respect for anyone that is good at their job and dedicated to it. Regardless of what that job is.
As have I, and any normal person.