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BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]

HItorMiss

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As of now recruits and Officer Cadets WILL be allowed to have access to their personal electronics (Cell phone, Laptop, IPod etc etc) for the entire course.

no longer will they be taken for the first 4 weeks of training and then accessed only on weekends after the 4 week in-doc. Now all candidates will have access to them for the entire course.

The Commandant has taken this step as it was seen to reduce the VR rate by 66% during the trial PL's that were run.

On a personal note many of you will cry havoc at this step (myself included) but he is the CO and thus we follow his directives. Do I like it no, do I agree with it HELL NO but there it is. And people wonder why I am releasing....  ::)

Edit: Spelling
 

vonGarvin

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BulletMagnet said:
The Commandant has take this step as it was seen to reduce the VR rate by 66% during the trial PL's that were run.
You are quite right to point out that it's his policy.


However....

Has he considered that maybe those who VR'd because they had no access to iThings for a few weeks are just maybe not exactly the kind of people that are wanted in a military force?


(Just curious)
 

HItorMiss

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Feel free to ask, we weren't allowed to question it, same goes with the ND policy....

EDIT: Spelling
 

dangerboy

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They are going to be in for a culture shock when they finish BMQ and if they end up on a BMQ(Land) course that I am running.  I confiscate the electronics day one of the course.
 

McG

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If a person cannot go four weeks without smartphone, tablet and laptop - how does that person function in operational environments where they may need to be seperated from those things for longer periods?

 

MJP

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BulletMagnet said:
All

As of now recruits and Officer Cadets WILL be allowed to have access to their personal electronics (Cell phone, Laptop, IPod etc etc) for the entire course.

no longer will they be taken for the first 4 weeks of training and then accessed only on weekends after the 4 week in-doc. Now all candidates will have access to them for the entire course.

I see will have access and having time to do so as two different things ;)  I also foresee instructors becoming even more inventive in ensuring troops are busy right up to lights out.  I feel for you BM, having known quite a few folks that have instructed there, you guys are busy as it is.

 

HItorMiss

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MJP

Sadly we aren't on the floor until lights out which is 2300hrs. Generally they are given an O Group at the end of training with a list of activities they must accomplish by lights out. Without the Electronics they had little else to do but accomplish the tasks, now well...

I used to come in on my own time to supervise and such being single it was easy for me. Now however I see the married guys going to have to take a hit on this and families will suffer Workday starts at 0500hrs home often times at 1700-2000hrs  now it may well be 0500hrs till 2300hrs and that is simply in my book not OK.

During the trial there was a marked decrease in teamwork and overall standard. But the CO said during the brief he didn't care as long as they met the school standard by grad. Which they essentially do because as long as you pass the tests and don't get counseled out and re-coursed you will pass. Doesn't mean they can function as a team member or have an individual military standard but I digress.

That is the policy and it will stand regardless of what we think or say... Unless someone really high up has a serious issue then maybe it will change but I don't see that happening either.
 

MJP

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BulletMagnet said:
MJP

Sadly we aren't on the floor until lights out which is 2300hrs. Generally they are given an O Group at the end of training with a list of activities they must accomplish by lights out. Without the Electronics they had little else to do but accomplish the tasks, now well...

I used to come in on my own time to supervise and such being single it was easy for me. Now however I see the married guys going to have to take a hit on this and families will suffer Workday starts at 0500hrs home often times at 1700-2000hrs  now it may well be 0500hrs till 2300hrs and that is simply in my book not OK.

Ack

We use to only have the marching NCO stay late to ensure troops were on task.  To allow the troops to get work done they didn't stay on the floor but rather did random spot checks during the evening.  At least that way you were only taking the stay late hit once a week or so.  But my experience is dated and not at CFLRS.
 
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aesop081

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BulletMagnet said:
The Commandant has taken this step as it was seen to reduce the VR rate by 66% during the trial PL's that were run.

The solution was to recruit different people, not change how we do things. Oh well, orders are orders.

Hopefully they don't come work at my unit. No cell phones or electronic devices allowed.
 

SentryMAn

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I can understand this, the young people of today have never lived without so taking away from them goes along with the ridiculous rules that we are seeing in our school systems.  It will be interesting to see these folks and their careers in the next 10-15 years.

Countless other people completed Basic without a cellular phone, Countless others completed it with the use of the pay phones only.  There are a section of youth today that really need to have their eyes opened up.

 

Michael OLeary

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SentryMAn said:
There are a section of youth today that really need to have their eyes opened up.

No doubt the arrival of pay phones on bases, and then in quarters, and portable radios, record players and tape recorders, and the first cell phones were all equally declaimed as signs of the coming apocalypse for the level of distraction they were guaranteed to create in their respective decades.  Perhaps we should wait and see if the staff document a noticeable effect on the training environement that might convince the CO, or his successor, to change the policy if needed.
 

Robert0288

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I like how this instantly went modern electronics = death and destruction of the CF as we know it. ::)  As people have said, there is immediate kick to the face of CFLRS and the culture shock.  However just because they went through it doesn't mean it was the most beneficial thing out there.  What stops staff from coming in, seeing people on their devices instead of doing unfinished tasks? I'm fairly certain the result will not be pretty. I'm also pretty sure people would be straightened out pretty fast by their course mates if they happen to bugger off and try to watch a movie while there is floor waxing to be done.  Which happened exactly once on my reserve BMQ before the weight of the entire PL fell firmly on the guys face.

Right now I'm doing paper work at NDHQ and I've seen many files crossing my desk about recruits having to VR because of unforeseen family issues.  Now its true they might actually be useless individuals who we don't want and will be 5F'd/5D'd in the near future, but they could also be good troops.  If sending a couple of text messages 5min before lights out happens to help, I don't see the harm in extending the trial.... At least not yet.
 

Craisome

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Sweet because I can talk with the family :)

but not so sweet because my old work will call :(
 

kenmnuggas

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To me, this seems like taking a work phone on vacation. What little positive impact it will have on your time there is more than outdone by the distractions.
But, of course, nobody asked me.

I'm still planning to leave my laptop at home during BMOQ though - whenever that happens!
 

Precept

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It's interesting. They provide multiple pay phones on each of the floors which cadets can access at any time of the night after training hours and before 23:00. So it's not like people are actually cut off from talking to their family. When I went through CFLRS, I was under the mindset "Just give me my phone so I don't have to pay more for calling cards", but I was in no way sour about the fact that I only got it on weekends. I'm also one of those people who can't live without an iGadget on the end of my fingers every day. I can't believe people struggle so much with this, especially when there is a phone on the wall they can use when ever they want to.

I'm actually glad I didn't have my phone during my course, because it forced me to become closer with the recruits around me, and wasn't a distraction every night. Lord knows I'd a been a lot less productive throughout the nights. It also meant I didn't have to put up with my family on a regular basis! :eek:

However, having completed a BMQ(L) with electronics, I don't know what I would have done without them. It was boring enough as it was!
 
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aesop081

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I don't see this as a bad thing at all. My Platoon had ONE Voluntary Release.. and I do believe it had something to do with us being able to call home easily every night, and deal with the small problems that arose.

In the real world, things are not like that. Its all fine and dandy that you only had one VR, but what will the others do when they can't call or email home for weeks ?

BMQ indoctrinates people into military life. Achieving high graduation rates by avoiding reality only produces substandard graduates. We made that mistake already with PT standards there............
 

Precept

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Stacked said:
I don't see this as a bad thing at all. My Platoon had ONE Voluntary Release.. and I do believe it had something to do with us being able to call home easily every night, and deal with the small problems that arose.

There are 5 pay phones on the floor. How is it difficult to call home every night? ???

 

PMedMoe

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So, when these people are in a place where they can't "call home easily every night, and deal with the small problems that arise" will they release then?

::)
 
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