Boeing to offer P-8 as CP-140 Replacement

[daftandbarmy]

Cause our procurement programs are meant for winning votes from a capricious and fickle electorate giving jobs to bureaucrats, not delivering capabilities.

There, FTFY

 

[calculus]

Interesting article in Skies on the P8, and it's relevance to Canada's CP-140 replacement project (Canadian Multi-mission Aircraft project):

Skies Magazine

Skies is your premier source of North American aviation news. We deliver exclusive content that is missing from other industry magazines, including insightful stories, news, reports and feature profiles from all sectors of aviation: business, private, commercial, military, cargo, maintenance...

skiesmag.com

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca

Wonder if this might get accelerated if we see some movement towards the 2% GDP goal in tomorrow's budget?

 

[Dale Denton]

I wonder more about the political aspect of the P-8, please correct me if i'm wrong:

Boeing, who offers the only logical choice for the CP-140 replacement is in a unique position. So to fulfil this project, the gov't would have to do business with a company it doesn't want to, in a file it doesn't really care about.

Boeing must know this, and if it really wants this contract bad, it would probably have to offer some fantastic terms to buy back CDN gov't approval, reducing profits. So it would take either the gov't to care about this project enough to give Boeing money to have P-8s, or Boeing would have to fight hard for a contract for a small fleet to an apathetic/unhappy customer.

I don't see a way forward here. Unless you went all-out on RPAS and bought the Seaguardian (or whatever its called) but lose capability.

 

[Good2Golf]

…or Uncle Sam said, “Well, how’s this for you? You guys buy in to NORAD renewal and NATO 2% and buy the F-35…oh, by the way, Boeing’s sorry about the Bombardier C-Series thing….oh, and buy the P-8!”

 

[Eye In The Sky]

All out RPAs would not meet the requirements in the CMMA blueprint linked above which states several times it must be a manned platform. Unmanned platforms with top notch sensors still can’t match a manned system that also has X or XX sets of eyes looking out as well.

Canada said it wouldn’t buy the F35. I wouldn’t count the P-8 out. We went P-3 like many of our Allies did…

I don’t know if the P-8 is the best for us, initially I am more concerned with “capabilities” than I am platform. Secondly I am more concerned about the number of replacement airframes - 14 is not enough. I am hoping we increase the size of the LRP fleet.

 

[dapaterson]

I note that when the Super Hornet was eliminated from Canada's Next Generation Fighter competition there were... crickets from Boeing. Boeing is also facing the imminent shutdown of the P8 line - in 2025 (U.S. Navy official sees more orders for Boeing P-8A in coming months)

Methinks playing nice is a strategic move on Boeing's part, to encourage Canada to buy more 737s..


(Heck, if Canada is growing defence capital spending, why not retire a dozen Griffons and buy another 10 Chinooks for Edmonton?)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It is starting to feel like we're the only kids not wearing pin-stripe jeans to the dance (to jump back to my junior high days for a comparision)...

First Norwegian P-8A Arrives Home - Overt Defense

A Norwegian P-8A Poseidon touched down in Norway for the first time on February 24th.

www.overtdefense.com

Boeing begins assembly of first P-8A Poseidon for New Zealand

Boeing's Poseidon program has reached a new key milestone with the assembly of the first P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft for New Zealand. Boeing P-8A team members and Spirit AeroSystems employees have laid the keel beam for New Zealand’s first P-8A. This process, also called ‘keeling,’ was done at...

defence-blog.com

 

[FSTO]

It is starting to feel like we're the only kids not wearing pin-stripe jeans to the dance (to jump back to my junior high days for a comparision)...

First Norwegian P-8A Arrives Home - Overt Defense

A Norwegian P-8A Poseidon touched down in Norway for the first time on February 24th.

www.overtdefense.com

Boeing begins assembly of first P-8A Poseidon for New Zealand

Boeing's Poseidon program has reached a new key milestone with the assembly of the first P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft for New Zealand. Boeing P-8A team members and Spirit AeroSystems employees have laid the keel beam for New Zealand’s first P-8A. This process, also called ‘keeling,’ was done at...

defence-blog.com

We’ll buy the Norwegian and Kiwi P3’s instead.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We’ll buy the Norwegian and Kiwi P3’s instead.

 

[dimsum]

We’ll buy the Norwegian and Kiwi P3’s instead.

Flight Engineers like this comment

But with the Germans also getting P-8s, realistically the only NATO countries not flying them but have MPA fleets are France (Atlantique 2) and Turkey (CN-235).

Germany bought the 5 P-8A Poseidon in order to replace its P-3C Orion

Today, the US Navy, awarded Boeing a production contract for five P-8A Poseidon aircraft for the German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr). The first deliveries are sc

www.aviacionline.com

 

[CBH99]

It is starting to feel like we're the only kids not wearing pin-stripe jeans to the dance (to jump back to my junior high days for a comparision)...

First Norwegian P-8A Arrives Home - Overt Defense

A Norwegian P-8A Poseidon touched down in Norway for the first time on February 24th.

www.overtdefense.com

Boeing begins assembly of first P-8A Poseidon for New Zealand

Boeing's Poseidon program has reached a new key milestone with the assembly of the first P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft for New Zealand. Boeing P-8A team members and Spirit AeroSystems employees have laid the keel beam for New Zealand’s first P-8A. This process, also called ‘keeling,’ was done at...

defence-blog.com

The first part of this post that stood out was ‘pin striped jeans’ and a sad face…

I just googled them. Goodness gracious…

 

[SupersonicMax]

Then this:

C295 Maritime Patrol Aircraft

The C295 MPA is a multirole maritime patrol aircraft derived from the C295 military transport aircraft. It has been developed…

www.naval-technology.com

Harmonize the FWSAR fleet with the « L »RP fleet!

ducks for cover

 

[CBH99]

I note that when the Super Hornet was eliminated from Canada's Next Generation Fighter competition there were... crickets from Boeing. Boeing is also facing the imminent shutdown of the P8 line - in 2025 (U.S. Navy official sees more orders for Boeing P-8A in coming months)

Methinks playing nice is a strategic move on Boeing's part, to encourage Canada to buy more 737s..


(Heck, if Canada is growing defence capital spending, why not retire a dozen Griffons and buy another 10 Chinooks for Edmonton?)

While the momentum behind the initial idea to buy 24 Super Hornets quickly died down after Boeing’s poorly led spat with the GoC, quite a few of us dismissed it as no big deal for Boeing.

And at the time, it really wasn’t. The Super Hornet line was going strong beefing up/replacing the USN’s inventory with 650 aircraft, plus spares. As aircraft were coming up to their 6000hr mark, Boeing had a steady stream of jets coming in needing to be refurbished and upgraded.

But that work has dried up immensely, with the F-35 coming online more and more.

The KC-46 program isn’t without significant challenges - all of which were self created, and which Boeing is literally eating itself as it tries to rectify the issues.

737 sales slumped dramatically for a while due to the 737 Max situation.

The C-17 line is closed.



Boeing isn’t making a big deal about our fighter selection because current management seems to realize they had a certain amount of currency that could be allotted to such issues, and that was wasted by previous management.

They have to play nice with the AH-64 and F-15EX programs the only military programs currently pulling their weight and then some.


Genuinely like the idea of retiring a dozen Griffons and replacing them with 10 Chinooks for Edmonton. Would be great to have a decent life capability here on the other side of the country, and we could keep the Griffon airframes in storage rather than divest entirely.

 

[MarkOttawa]

One suspects a Bombardier bizjet platform (if company still building them at the end of the decade) would be a preferred solution for Canadian gov't:

1) From Bombardier:

Maritime Surveillance

With their endurance, reliability and class-leading range, Bombardier jets are ideal for maritime surveillance.

specializedaircraft.bombardier.com

2) Saab seems to have given up its Bombardier airframe Swordfish MPA:

Saab puts marketing effort for Swordfish maritime plane on hiatus

Why is Saab stepping away from its sub-hunting aircraft concept?

www.defensenews.com

Mark Collins

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Then this:

C295 Maritime Patrol Aircraft

The C295 MPA is a multirole maritime patrol aircraft derived from the C295 military transport aircraft. It has been developed…

www.naval-technology.com

Harmonize the FWSAR fleet with the « L »RP fleet!

ducks for cover

 

[Eye In The Sky]

One suspects a Bombardier bizjet platform (if company still building them at the end of the decade) would be a preferred solution for Canadian gov't:

1) From Bombardier:

Maritime Surveillance

With their endurance, reliability and class-leading range, Bombardier jets are ideal for maritime surveillance.

specializedaircraft.bombardier.com

2) Saab seems to have given up its Bombardier airframe Swordfish MPA:

Saab puts marketing effort for Swordfish maritime plane on hiatus

Why is Saab stepping away from its sub-hunting aircraft concept?

www.defensenews.com

Mark Collins

They are small airframes, so my initial concern would be endurance and "all up weight"; MPAs need to be able to haul around lots of search and kill stores and fuel for abilty to remain ONSTA (on station).

Our current and near-future torps don't allow for external carriage (temperature concerns). Also, wing/exeternal stores will induce drag, drag reduces ONSTA and speed.

For those main reasons...my initial thought is "Pass". I'd give them a look for maritime surveillance perhaps, but we don't have the $ or personnel for specialized fleets like that. Which is exactly Bombardier is suggesting their platform is good for; " ideal for maritime surveillance". We need more than just that from the fleet.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The first part of this post that stood out was ‘pin striped jeans’ and a sad face…

I just googled them. Goodness gracious…

But back in the 80s, you were stylin' if you had a rugby shirt, pin stripe jeans and a pair of (untied) Kodiak work boots on. Imagine...at the dance....Billy Jean starts playin'....your time has come. (* collar up on the rugby shirt, of course)

 

[Weinie]

But back in the 80s, you were stylin' if you had a rugby shirt, pin stripe jeans and a pair of (untied) Kodiak work boots on. Imagine...at the dance....Billy Jean starts playin'....your time has come. (* collar up on the rugby shirt, of course)

I resemble the above mentioned stylin’ guy. Mmmmmmmmm………………Kodiaks.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'll also reach back to Pages 2 & 3 of this thread....the P4. I still think this one is deserving of a serious look.

Boeing to offer P-8 as CP-140 Replacement

I'm not sure the Japanese are willing (or allowed) to export that. Japan has been eagerly trying to find an export customer for P-1 for many years. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-uk-arms-exclusive-idUSKBN0KG0WG20150107 I've been impressed by P-1 capabilities, but I think spares/parts...

army.ca

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I resemble the above mentioned stylin’ guy. Mmmmmmmmm………………Kodiaks.

There was the expectation to "scuff your heels" when you walked. Super-sized the kewl factor!